Are the Cocteaus a "white" thing?

[Phil Lawton]

Odd thing happened today - I was outside cleaning my car (it's a quiet day, what can I tell you) and so banged on a CD with FCC and M&K on it, whistling away as I cleaned. Our industrial unit is being painted at the moment and the black guy who was doing the painting had reached where my car was parked. The CD got half way thru FCC when he asked "Who's this playing, mate?"

I told him and then asked him "Why - do you like it?"

"Nah" he replied. "It's too white." Now, I've never thought of racial boundaries when it comes to CT's music; I know they're big in Japan and the Far East, but the black/white crossover thing has never occurred to me.

So...is CT a non-black form of music or what? And, if so, why?

[The Gaffer]

Phil

Next time don't play your music so loud.

In answer to the question, there may be something to that assertion. Think 'Snow'.

[Phil Lawton]

Gaffer - keeping you awake, was it?

So what are you saying....yes or no? I'm not implying that there's anything racist in the music or the lyrics (how could there be?), but do you reckon that CT's music just doesn't appeal to a black audience?

I'm not being flippant, it just intrigues me.

[The Gaffer]

Phil

CT music is universal music without a doubt.

The Gaffer

[Phil Lawton]

That's that sorted, then.

[Ben Du Toit]

Yeah, The Gaffer's definitive and spot on assessment sure sorts that one out.

[Phil Lawton]

As an aside, Ben, are you South African and do you have an athlete sister called Natalie? And what do you think about the question? Are CT "too white" to appeal across the board?

[mmmender]

i beg to differ. phil, i would have to answer your original question and say "yes, i do think that the cocteaus are indeed 'white' music!" before i go any further let me assure you that i am not a racist but over the last 20 years of living in cocteauland (as one does when they are obsessed) i have had many people cross my path and the majority of fans that i have encountered have been caucasian. obviously there are fans of colour out there, it would be ridiculous to state otherwise. i'm merely stating that again the majority of fans have been white.

a good friend of mine (who is incidentally a non-white from south africa) is also a huge cocteau fan. he and i had this discussion about 10 years ago and he agrees with me! he thinks that their music appeals mainly to a white audience and that the topics (er, if you can figure them out) are mostly irrelevant to people of colour. i would have to disagree here seeing as most of what liz sings about is love and relationships between man and woman and woman and child. last time i checked people of colour were doing those things as well!! i'm digressing.

moving right along.....he feels that the band is very 'white' and that they come from a very 'white' world with a very 'white' upbringing who sing about 'white things' thus alienating people of colour. now....i wouldn't go so far as to say that people of colour felt alienated but i would agree that their music is indeed 'white' as it holds no basis or roots in anything but 'white' traditional music. the united kingdom and it's history are before you and behind you, what else are you to do?

leesa (who runs and hides under the coffee table)

[Scott]

Hmm, interesting....a few thoughts(playing fast and loose with terms and not overly serious either)...I think the whole white music/black music distinction is mostly superficial cultural thing. Within that, I agree CT falls in to the white music category..but it is no more alientated from black music than country music(the 'other' white music). I think a large portion of people take to music they find accessible which comes through some cultural medium.

Alot of 'black music' seems to get in to the 'groove' making while not being too concerned with other aspects. To me it is all in what you enjoy...I enjoy elements of both white and black music as defined(though the distinction is useless to me, I'd rather take the best of both and transcend)...I think it is total BS to say we lack rhythm and soul because of our musical approach. Although much of the white music has often suffered from lacking a good rhythmic feel...and alot of black music(popular in the 60's and 70's) filled in that void, but alot of their culture came along with that. That must have been similar in the 20's as well. Doesn't mean you have to sound like Stevie Wonder to have soul...It is all in what you are after. CT isn't without those elements, they just had a different approach..I think.

On subject matter, I agree with mmmender, I think CT's subject matter is largely universal. Personally I am interested in sharing musical experiences with folks less confined to culture boundaries, or at least interested in discarding their own, I've come to appreciate more music in discarding mine(and I'm certainly not free of them yet).

Good topic, Phil, though perhaps impossible to discuss without some misunderstandings(great or small)

[-i-]

all good points scott (et al).. but what should really concern us all more is that you mentioned CT and country music in the same breath... ;-)

[Scott]

hehe, indeed..maybe ambiguous..meaning to say CT is as far from country as it is from 'black music'...

[Ben Du Toit]

Phil

Yes, I am South African and do have a sister called Natalie who is an athlete.

In answer to your other question, I suppose one would have to say that CT music has much more in common with what might be termed "white" music, however as has already been pointed out, such classifications are necessarily loose and musically and ultimately, meaningless.

That said, I think it fair to say that CT music does not possess any cultural or musical similarities with the normal and accepted views of "black" music, and that view shouldn't be controversial.

Ben

[Phil Lawton]

Ben

I fully agree. What puzzled me (and continues to do so, I guess) is that the perceived (as far as I'm concerned) neutrality of CT's material could prove to be inaccesible to anyone, regardless of race, creed or gender. Another pulled thread in life's rich tapestry, I suppose.

Oh, and give my congratulations to your sister, Ben - she deserved the medals.

[Ben Du Toit]

Phil

Thank you for the heartfelt agreement and word of congratulation.

Ben

[mmmender]

phil - there are no nail clippers....cos you know i'd have them if they existed (being the absolute freak that i am!)

[mmmender]

in fact.....i'm so much of a freak that i posted the above message in the wrong place!

:P

[Phil Lawton]

Lees - yup, you need some kind of therapy, woman...but you knew that.

As an aside, you all may be wondering what Ben Tu Toit and I are talking about. Ben seems the modest sort, so let me tell you that his sister, Natalie Du Toit (representing South Africa), won two gold medals in swimming at the Commonwealth Games last week and was also voted Outstanding Athlete of the games. Now THAT'S something to be rpoud of. Once again, Ben, please pass on my congrats to her. It's her sort of spirit which made the Manchester Games such a success.

[Jamie]

What a ridiculous thing to say that the CT music is TOO WHITE.
However, I have to admit that I myself, as a white person, do tend to think of R and B, rap etc as "black people music". So I think it is understandable that someone who is totally part of that scene may think that CT style is WHITE. I have yet to feel emotionally stirred enough to go out and by R and B stuff, which is why I dont have any of it in my record collection. Thats what music is about, how it makes you feel, i'd never not buy an album for the style being TOO BLACK, it would be because whatever artist's music does nothing for me.
I never thought about that before so it was interesting to hear that. Shame that people limit themselves to certain styles. I do it myself , tho, i must admit.

[Ben Du Toit]

Phil

Again, thank you for your heartfelt congratulations. As you might expect, Natalie is still over the moon over her good fortune and is delighted to have received such positive feedback.

Ben

[Phil Lawton]

Ben

You're welcome, although I know that "good fortune" played almost no part in her success and that she worked hard (perhaps harder than people realise) to get to the level she's at.

[Scott]

I've found very little Rap/Hip-Hop I like, but no more do I take to twangy screeching 'country' music so popular here in the states, bluegrass is another matter...
Not to tokenize 'black music' any more than 'white music', but while on the topic there are a few black musicians I like and feel compelled to mention here...

Geoffrey Oryema(from Uganda, produced in France) - I love his album 'Exile' produced by ever-present Eno, and like 'Beat the Border' less(in contrast to most reviews) haven't heard others.

Tracy Chapman - 'New Beginnings' is the only album I love to listen to, but appreciate the content of all of them.

not a big Raggae fan but I enjoy Alpha Blondy(from the Ivory Coast) and some Bob Marley of course...

[Phil Lawton]

Scott

Don't get me started on black musicians....oh...you already did. OK, here's a list of my elite

Billy Cobham - THE drummer. The man must have three arms and and four feet. Check out "Spectrum".

Stan Clarke - the fastest bass player I've ever heard, even on double bass.

Alphonso Johnson - the world's best fretless bassist, bar none.

Ronnie Laws - the sax was invented for him.

Dexter Gordon - ditto

Wayne Shorter - born with a tenor sax in his hand. Oustanding with Miles Davis' band, mind-blowing with Weather Report. Check out his solo on the title track of Steely Dan's "Aja".

Miles Davis - nuff said.

George Duke - played keyboards for and with the best. Great sense of humour, too.

Herbie Hancock - wears the keyboard world's Daddy-pants. Incomparable. Forget the pseudo-disco stuff like "Rockit" and "I Thought It Was You"...."Head Hunters" was and still is one of the most important albums ever released.

You may have noticed a slight jazz thread here....

[The Gaffer]

Whilst on the subject of black musicians, I feel it only fair - and right, to add Eddy Grant.

[Ben Du Toit]

Phil

I take your point, however it was good fortune in the sense that Natalie's fellow competitors fell short on the day. Of course, that is not to take anything whatsoever away from Natalie's fantastic achievements.

[Phil Lawton]

Gaffer

How could I have forgotten dear old Eddy "I do more than one song, y'know" Grant. Winner of the Greenpeace Re-cycling award for "Electric Avenue", he knocked Sister Sledge from that particular pedestal after they'd held the title for fourteen years.

Greenpeace awarded the gong to the Sisters for continued recycling of the singles "We Are Family" and "Lost In Music", both of which they originally released in 1952 and have both been remixed 47 and 83 times, respectively.

Head Sledge sister Beatrice, now in her seventies, also published a best selling lifestyle guide, entitled "Waste Not, Want Not".

Phil

[Phil Lawton]

Ben

Is painful modesty a South African trait? She destroyed the opposition, mate, as opposed to taking advantage of their shortcomings.

[Ben Du Toit]

Phil

Well, if the truth be told, then this South African is painfully modest. As such, there are no trumpets in my household.

[Phil Lawton]

Incidentally, according to "New Musical Express", Eddy Grant launches his bid to retain the title in September, with the release of "Electric Avenue (Ole Sparky Mix)".

Sister Sledge will attempt to edge back into contention with the double A-side single "We Are Family (Osmond Mix)"/"Lost In Music (Arnie Sachneusen Mix)", which will be released on September 12th, October 9th, November 15th and December 3rd.

[The Gaffer]

Be there no finer record to endlessly remix than Electric Avenue. However, I think it fair to say that the original version was da best.

[Scott]

Phil: Indeed...for my part I wasn't going into black musicians in any large summary and left out all the jazz musicians which I like as well...but Oryema and Chapman are two that are also singer/songwriters that I listen to currently and like very much for those respective albums. And I think the content of their music has alot to with black culture as it were. I was focusing mainly on black writers with the singer/songwriter aspect, leaving out those excellent jazz musicians and the like...point being there may be some cultural divide between white and black but there are things I like which sound 'black' and it doesn't turn me off to the music at all.

[Torreadorre]

What an incredible topic!
Im of Indian origins, grew up in London (UK) and have been besotted by The Cocteaus for as long as I can remember but never have I questioned their target audience.
This topic certainly has allowed me to think about their music in a new way for a few moments. By the way, Jamie, I agree with you point of view totally.

I grew up in a very musical family and was subjected to a healthy mix of the likes of Elvis, Nana mouskouri, Indian classical music (instrumental vocal), English classical and Indian Religious music (though Im not religious myself).
The first artist I became passionate about was Kate Bush after watching her perform Wuthering Heights on Aspel when I was 5. From then on it all went wonderfully heywire,
I was into 80's pop (Toyah to Kylie) as a young teen, moving to Indie, Alternative & Goth in my late teens & most of my 20's. Now at 29 I dont think theres a single genre of music I dont have anything from, including some RnB et al (I have thousands of cd's).

I do maintain my favourites as I still Love Kate Bush & the 80's but the Cocteaus have always been something else. Im at one with their music and Ive been wondering why.
Growing up listening to Indian music I didnt know what it meant aside from the odd word or sentance. I did how-ever feel passionately the mood the music created, I could be moved to tears by some songs and made to feel exstatic by others without understanding all the words.
I think perhaps this is how my passion for the Cocteaus was founded, a style of music & Vocal which moves & delights me deeply, the mood enhanced, bound & sealed by the capture of the odd enigmatic word or lyric. Lyrics as personal to us the audience as they are to Liz as we each hear or decipher something personal & individual to us.

I think an individuals abilities to appreciate music are based on what they are influenced by, particularly as kids.
How can you appreciate something you have never been subjected to?
Most of my Cd collection comprises of what might be termed as 'white music', but having lived in a predominantly 'black' area for the past couple of years I have gotten into some RnB.
To conclude I say those with an open ear are truly blessed as they can experience and feel things others may cut themselves off from.
The music of The Cocteaus has no boundaries, their messages of emotion, life, secrets & myts are Universal and accessable by all the Kindred.

[TG]

On the subject of notable and worthy black musicians, let's not forget the legendary Smiley Culture.

[Phil Lawton]

Torreadorre

You've done nothing but reinforce my suspicions. As you're of Indian extraction, CT music is bound to hold some sort of commonality with your own musical roots (trad Indian music can be excellent). Take a listen to CT's "High Monkey Monk", with the Golden Throated One pumping out quarter tones (an almost singularly Asian skill) and it all slots into place.

It's interesting to see the diversity of opinion on this subject, which grew out of a chance hearing by the black guy I started the topic with. Personally, I don't believe that any music is inherently black or white (unless you're delving into traditional folk music of any country/race you care to mention), although it can fit the assumed mass persona that some music engenders, as the followers of "gangsta" can best illustrate.

As a closer, I should really just bung a rider in that I should have made at the start of this thread - I'm a massive anti-racist and can be found wading into anyone who spews forth any right-wing views in my earshot.

Peace, love and knitted underwear to you all.

[spanglemaker]

you've forgotten the queen of them all....Nina Simone

[Torreadorre]

I totally hear what your saying Philip regarding The High Monkey Monk. Infact Id include most of Echoes & Tiny Dinamines to that style of singing.

Thats a pretty cool thread to follow on from here, where in the world do certain Cocteau's songs sound like they originate from.
For example, to me Touch upon Touch has a Gallic quality.

[Phil Lawton]

Torre

Yup, right on the money. "Touch" always puts me in mind of a seedy, smoky French jazz club, just before the last customer drifts off home.

[mmmender]

this is a really old thread - but a very good one nonetheless which deserves a *bump*!

[keefy]

I don't usually think too much about the racial difference bu my dp is black (and you're gonna be in trouble hey la le la my boyfriend's black!), etc. etc. A few years back, he turned ME on to CT far more than I already had been turned onto them -- I had a copy of Blue Bell Knoll, and something else, can't remember, but BBK was the fave -- he got me interested enough to hear the whole thing. If that weren't enough, when we met he noticed my walkman cans around my neck -- he asked what I was listening to and it was a Stereolab album that had been out for about five minutes (rather early one, Bachelor Pad I think).

Anyway, I asked what he was listening to and it was *HENRY COW*. I thought I'd died and gone to Las Vegas. Not only did he have big killer eyes and a dynamite tan (swear to god that's what I truly thought when I met him), but he was into cool music.

And the other funny CT thing that we found out moments after meeting was that we both think Robin is cute. Go figure eh?

Oh yeh, and bought Electric Avenue, when I first heard that song I thought the words were:

"Oh no, we're gonna rock
Down to K-Mart & buy some shoes!
They only cost a dollar!"

Guess my sense of humour got away with me.

[willy]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
Torre

Yup, right on the money. "Touch" always puts me in mind of a seedy, smoky French jazz club, just before the last customer drifts off home.

Don't they usually have to carry you out, Phil, before chucking your remains into a taxi?

Back on topic, the girlfriend is from Manila and she thinks the 'Teaus are shit.

[Phil Lawton]

Originally posted by willy
Don't they usually have to carry you out, Phil, before chucking your remains into a taxi?

Back on topic, the girlfriend is from Manila and she thinks the 'Teaus are shit.

Willum

I don't imbibe, mate...not that that fact prevents the owners of the establishment carrying me out and throwing me into something, although it's usually the nearest pool of vomit.

(You know, it's been a while since I've seen a pavement pizza...do people still produce these?)

Your woman hates the 'Teaus? What about any other Romulans?

[willy]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
You know, it's been a while since I've seen a pavement pizza...do people still produce these?

Dunno, but being a veggie, I do produce the odd 'air biscuit'.

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
Your woman hates the 'Teaus? What about any other Romulans?

Spookily enough she does have pointy* ears and a straight black fringe. Me, I'm a baldy**.

* friends call her Jean Luc.
** friends call me Jean Luc.

[willy]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
Willum
I don't imbibe, mate...

Hey Lawton you're so fine
You're so fine you blow my mind

Hey Lawton
Hey Lawton

[Phil Lawton]

Originally posted by willy
Hey Lawton you're so fine
You're so fine you blow my mind

Hey Lawton
Hey Lawton

Oh, Willy, what a pity you don't understand
Your bird's a Fillipino
But you thought it was Japan

You're a Geordie
Lawdy Dawdy
Best part of our land

[Brett]

Funny, this topic has been around me for a while recently. I had a long chat with friends from the Chameleons forum about this and a lengthy one with Zed.

Tend to agree mmmenders first post. There are some generalisations to be drawn. I'm not sure there is anything inherant to prevent any group of people for liking any type of music though. The reasons are probably cultural and relate to exposure throughout childhood and adolescence. My friend Dee from New Jersey is black. She loves The The, Dead Can Dance, Depeche Mode, Chameleons, Cocteaus......all our stuff in other words. I've spoken to her about it and she agrees, it's odd for her, in her situation, to like this stuff. Her black friends call her silly names like 'Bounty' as a tease.

When you think of it though, most rock goes back to blues and white indie-shimmering guitar stuff could be argued goes back to Hendrix. I love it all. Then again, I've been accused of being a black guy in a white guys body. (What a huge compliment! ;) )

A nicely discussed idea. Thank you Phil. It's tricky to phrase without seeming to make racial generalisations. Everyone has been very cool.

[andylama]

As far as the racist thing goes, don't forget, Liz is immortalized on an interview record clearly stating that in her lyrics, she "raves on about Hitler".

I hope you've all heard this interview, it's very funny. Second only to the bit where they talk about doing a tour of petrol stations.

[fredofla]

since the CT bandmembers themselves happen to be white, they could not help being a "white" thing.

had they been black, i doubt they'd have made music that sounds anything like what they created because they are white.

(does that make sense?)

i'm not talking about the "audience" appeal thing here (or maybe i am afterall....)

i really can't think of very much non-urban avant-rock that has ever fostered any kind of large urban black following.

CT music is, like most music, a product of its source environment; and so is the audience that happens to find some kind of personal identification with it.

then again, i could go into the whole "beat" thing here, stating that blacks find a far greater joy in music with "grooves" than any kind of traditional indie rock beats.

that maybe veering away from the topic here, but i think it deserves some discussion.

my take is that the emergence of triphop/downtempo as well as a lot of the avant-hip hop being made the Bay Area Anticon collective (ie, Clouddead, Dose One, etc....) is bridging the gap on CT influenced ethereal/dreampop and "black" groove/blues music.

and yet, even with Bjork's solo career emergence away from rock drumming and toward a larger groove aesthetic, i do wonder if she has much of a "black" following.

or, could it be that regardless of her recent "black" groove influences, she'll always be labeled as the odd "white" lady from Iceland who fills arenas with a 95 percent white audience?

....something to think about.

regardless of the kind of music being made, the race of the artist may have a lot to do with a fanbase.

that is, unless you happen to be Diana Ross or Michael Jackson.

or maybe "white" fans for some reason have an easier time crossing over to "black" artists than vice-versa?

i think there might be some truth in this possibility.



FRED of LA

thread recommendation: listen to anything by The Broadway Project.......therein lies a kind of ecstatic experimental marriage of dreampop and white rock and black blues......i mean, who couldn't identify with a music so intrinsically sublime?

[mmmender]

y'ever be just happily skimming through a thread and you're reading the comments and then all of a sudden you read something so fucking funny that makes you spit out your last mouthful of the beverage you were enoying? well this did it for me.....

Originally posted by willy
Hey Lawton you're so fine
You're so fine you blow my mind

Hey Lawton
Hey Lawton

[fredofla]

Originally posted by by the sea
> fred, that was beautiful.


thanks, hon.

i knew you'd understand.....


:clap:

[dannen]

my two cents are going to have to go in the "CT is REALLY frickin white" bank. ...and i feel i have some experience with the pigmentaly challened (myself included) being from Iowa where the whities are well over 90% of the population.

clearly, as previously posted in this thread, there are no "white music" rules or "black music" rules but generalizations, and accurate ones, are very real and clear.

i'd say CT is slightly more 'ethnic' than say, ABBA or The Carpenters but less so than perhaps K.C. & The Sunshine Band (groovy but fronted by a whitey).

[Avninder]

This thread is really quite silly. Is this topic about music and race open to all races or is it strictly about black/white cultural differences in regards to musical preference? I think a lot of people are assuming here that rock=white music and soul/hip hop= black music. If that is the case, how do we understand the fact that so many whites and people from other races are into and can relate to "black music"? I think the more accurate question here is why are there so few black people interested in music created by white people?

Hmmm... now that the Twins have truly been explained to me as being a "white" band, perhaps I should stop listening to them because I am East Indian. Thanks to everybody for waking me up and setting me straight. From now on, it's strictly tabla and sitar music for me.

[keefy]

Originally posted by Avninder
This thread is really quite silly. Is this topic about music and race open to all races or is it strictly about black/white cultural differences in regards to musical preference? I think a lot of people are assuming here that rock=white music and soul/hip hop= black music. If that is the case, how do we understand the fact that so many whites and people from other races are into and can relate to "black music"? I think the more accurate question here is why are there so few black people interested in music created by white people?

Hmmm... now that the Twins have truly been explained to me as being a "white" band, perhaps I should stop listening to them because I am East Indian. Thanks to everybody for waking me up and setting me straight. From now on, it's strictly tabla and sitar music for me.

I'm with you man .... This is like a throwback from the 50's in America at least. I can't say racial divisions aren't still with us -- my partner and I watched the parade in NYC against Bush's war, standing together defiantly holding hands (I had new boots on and didn't want to join the parade, but we felt we should do *something* somewhat defiant). We got lots of weird looks for doing this, about half of them positive. I can't help but think it's very much a racial thing because a lot of the weird stares were from people who were wearing pink triangles and rainbows, so it wasn't that it was two guys, it was that it was a black guy and what passes for a white guy (I'm melungeon).

My partner likes progressive music mostly (the indie variety, not the overblown 70's mersh variety). When we met and were sort of going over our musical tastes there were plenty of things by black artists on both sides (him with his love of afrobeat, me with my love of free jazz). We're both partial to 4AD stuff, french pop, acid jazz, IDM, etc. He's turned me onto stuff I wouldn't touch previously, and I've shown him that Emerson Lake & Palmer *can* groove if they feel like it and *they're* not all crap. He took me to see Gong, I took him to see Parliament. We can and do get into music performed by black people but we're not making divisions. We like any band because we think they're good.

Keef

[Phil Lawton]

Avninder/Keefy

You may well have the wrong end of the stick here. THIS is what the thread is all about:

"Odd thing happened today - I was outside cleaning my car (it's a quiet day, what can I tell you) and so banged on a CD with FCC and M&K on it, whistling away as I cleaned. Our industrial unit is being painted at the moment and the black guy who was doing the painting had reached where my car was parked. The CD got half way thru FCC when he asked "Who's this playing, mate?"

I told him and then asked him "Why - do you like it?"

"Nah" he replied. "It's too white." Now, I've never thought of racial boundaries when it comes to CT's music; I know they're big in Japan and the Far East, but the black/white crossover thing has never occurred to me.

So...is CT a non-black form of music or what? And, if so, why? "

And that's all.

[iceblink555]

Originally posted by fredofla
or maybe "white" fans for some reason have an easier time crossing over to "black" artists than vice-versa?

i think there might be some truth in this possibility.

FRED of LA


I agree, Fred. At least in the U.S. this seems to generally be the case. Not sure how different it is in other countries, but I wonder if the prevailing race relations have a large bearing on this....

--Alan

[willy]

Originally posted by Avninder
From now on, it's strictly tabla and sitar music for me.

Me too. I could murder an Indian.*


*Disclaimer: this is what the British say when they have an enormous craving for a curry. It implies no racial violence or hatred.

[willy]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
So...is CT a non-black form of music or what? And, if so, why? "

And that's all.

Yes but Phil, I think what certain posters are asking you is:

Are you a pub man?
Or a club man?
Or a jet black guy with a hip hi-fi?
A white cool cat with a trilby hat?

Come on, spill the beans.*


*Disclaimer: this is what people in Britain do to each other in the privacy of their own homes, with a tin of baked beans in tomato sauce and two - or more - willing participants. It is not to imply the revealing of truth.

[Phil Lawton]

Are you a pub man?

Is "pub" short for "pubic"? If so, then yes...I have some.

Or a club man?

No - I abhor violence.

Or a jet black guy

Yes, I've always admired the skills of The Stranglers' drummer.

with a hip hi-fi?

You mean like a Walkman?

A white cool cat

They are best chilled, you're right. I like mine sawn in half and then served with ricotta.

with a trilby hat?

Now you're being silly.

Come on, spill the beans

Ah, the old Slade song...

"Come on, spill the beans
Cat fillets, nice 'n' lean
My dog's broiled, broiled broiled"

They don't write 'em like that any more.

[iceblink555]

Dream on white boy...

[willy]

So, then, are the Cocteaus a "white" thing?

Yes. Why didn't someone just fucking say so.

[willy]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
Is "pub" short for "pubic"? If so, then yes...I have some.


What, hair? lice? connections? warts?

[Phil Lawton]

Originally posted by willy
What, hair? lice? connections? warts?

Braids.

[keefy]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton

So...is CT a non-black form of music or what? And, if so, why? "

And that's all. [/B]

Well, I'm not thinking anyone's racist here. You gotta demonstrate hatred for that. Everyone's coloured or else you wouldn't be able to see them, you know?

What I'm with Avninder on is that it's silly.

I figure that CT is a black light form of music. So bright, powerful, and colourful that it just engulfs you -- much like a black light.

[Phil Lawton]

Originally posted by keefy


I figure that CT is a black light form of music.

Possibly the best description of CT's music I've ever read.

Thanks, Keef.

[Avninder]

Thanks for reminding me what this thread is about but Phil, I find your response to mine even sillier. If you read through the thread, you'll see like most topics that go thrugh the minds of several people tend to evolve. There are several threads BEFORE mine that took this thread to new places. So why do you feel the need to remind ME what this thread is about? Loosen up, man!

Hm... I think the next time someone comments on anything I'm into, I'll consider his/her race as possible reasons for their like or dislike. Just because one black guy pointed out his preference for or against something it should not then mean that it must be due to his race. I really think that ascribing things as a "white" or "black" thing is still a relic of our racist past. I admit it, I too am affected by it. We all are. I think there is a danger when we pat ourselves on the back when we think ourselves "enlightened" compared to what our ancestors did and do to others based upon their race. Unfortunately my friends, there's still a LONG way to go, but part of that way is acknowledging that we have to get ourselves straight.
Love to y'all
Avi

[Phil Lawton]

Originally posted by Avninder
Thanks for reminding me what this thread is about but Phil, I find your response to mine even sillier. If you read through the thread, you'll see like most topics that go thrugh the minds of several people tend to evolve. There are several threads BEFORE mine that took this thread to new places. So why do you feel the need to remind ME what this thread is about? Loosen up, man!



Avi

You're telling ME to loosen up? Are you not the one who said (tongue in cheek or not) that it was time to get back to "tabla and sitar music"?

I re-posted my original question, as your comment appeared to encompass the whole thread content. I'd have been less likely to re-state the original post if you'd made some distinction.

If you throw my massive anti-racist views into the equation, Av, you'll understand why I was anxious to set the record straight.

Ant further dissent from you and it'll be babbons at ten paces at dawn.....and I never miss, gringo.

[Avninder]

Um...well...I don't quite understand your last response there Phil. Therefore, I guess it's safe to say we're just on different wavelengths.

Avi

[willy]

You're not, actually.

Right, I'm off to choke a darkie.*

*Disclaimer: This is how the British may describe the lowering of the trousers in response to the morning's natural promptings, i.e. having a shit, and is not to imply racial hatred in any way. But to understand is to forgive.

[Phil Lawton]

Cheers for the hearty chuckle, Willum.

[willy]

Anytime, Phil.

[Baddy2shoos]

only the brits could get away with this :)