while she reels

[mmmender]

when i think of cocteau twins music, i divide it into eras (as i'm sure many others do as well)...and i'm wondering if you classify these eras the same as i do. moving further from individual eras, i also have one very specific dividing line for what i consider to be 'old cocteau twins' and 'new cocteau twins.' for me - this dividing line of 'new stuff' comes after the release of blue bell knoll. i'm curious to know if anyone else seeing this as the 'turning point' in the change of the cocteau sound. i think that the differences in style and sound between blue bell knoll and heaven or las vegas is vast. differences in style, vocal technique, recording technique, instrumentation and clarity, to me, is very prominent. i've heard others place this 'dividing line' at the release of four calendar cafe because of the very obvious vocal changes....while many would disagree with me and class blue bell knoll as the transition album because of the new approachable (and radio friendly) sound in songs like a kissed out red floatboat.

[Adam]

I - Garlands, Lullabies, Peppermint Pig

II - Head Over Heels - Blue Bell Knoll

III - Iceblink Luck - Violaine

[ScottL]

I haven't given it THAT much thought...but I guess I I hear as a solid phase as Treasure/Aikea-Guinea through BBK...I do agree after BBK seems more later years in terms of Liz vocals, even though BBK was indeed an obvious mix sound transition due largely to the September Sound studio...I especially see this when you take the 3 releases: LET, BBL and HoL...of the 3 I would pair LET and BBK vocals-wise, not BBK and HoL.
So I guess my phases actually would be
[list=1]
Garlands, Lullabies, PP
HoH - Spanglemaker
Treasure/AG - BBK
HoL - M&K
[/list=1]

But I really don't follow those phases rigidly...still, in terms of vocals it makes sense to me.

[Hale]

It's hard to divide because the entire thing is one long transition, but this is how I tend to break things down:

1 - Garlands, Head Over Heels, Treasure
2 - Victorialand, Blue Bell Knoll, Heaven or Las Vegas
3 - Four Calendar Cafe, M&K

That progression is pretty textbook actually, and could describe a lot of bands - Phase 1 emerges from an existing musical context, and over the course of several albums develops a thoroughly unique signature. By Phase 2, the songwriting has become significantly more experienced, and the idiosyncracies are pushing the limits of the form. Around Phase 3, a conscious effort is made to either modernize an old sound or create a leaner one that is more "accessible." That said, Blue Bell Knoll is my actual favorite of what they've released; I listen to it at least once a day, often more.

[iceblink]

Here is how I divide them:

1. Garlands, Head Over Heels, Treasure, The Pink Opaque
2. Victoria Land, Moon and the Melodies
3. Blue Bell Knoll, Heaven or Las Vegas
4. Four Calender Cafe, Milk and Kisses

All respective singles and E.P.s would also fall into those categories as well. I always thought of the dividing line as falling between HOL and FCC in terms of lyrics, but in terms of sound I always put it before BBK.

Just my two cents on the subject......

[Lucibelle]

Does anyone know just when they stopped doing drugs? I say put the dividing line there! :D


;)


:p <---put LSD here!

[Adam]

Half of Four-Calendar Cafe was written on drugs, half wasn't. See if you can figure out which halves.

Robin Guthrie, Alternative Press, Feb 1994

[steven]

Originally posted by Adam
Half of Four-Calendar Cafe was written on drugs, half wasn't. See if you can figure out which halves.

Robin Guthrie, Alternative Press, Feb 1994

I'm pretty sure I have on record from Guthrie "Bluebeard" and "Summerhead" were written while using, while I have an interview with Raymonde from 1994 (KCRW radio interview) where he states "Theft and Wandering Around Lost" was the first track recorded afterafter Robin's rehab. As for the rest, my guesses are:

clean: Know who you are at every age
Squeeze Wax
Pur
Evangeline
My Truth

using:
Oil of Angels
Essence

S.

[steven]

Originally posted by mmmender
when i think of cocteau twins music, i divide it into eras (as i'm sure many others do as well)...and i'm wondering if you classify these eras the same as i do. moving further from individual eras, i also have one very specific dividing line for what i consider to be 'old cocteau twins' and 'new cocteau twins.'

I hear four distinct periods/eras in the Twins history, though "period/era" #4 could likely be divided into two separate eras. For lack of better terms, I label these:

Dark/"Gothic" / Pre-Raymonde: Garlands, Lullibies, Peppermint Pig

"Minimalist period:" Head Over Heals, Sunburst, Treasure,
Spangle Maker, Aikea-Guniea, The Pink
Opaque.

"Experimental / Ambient": Echos, Dynamine, Victorialand, Moon &
Melodies, Love's Easy Tears, Crushed.

It seemed to my ears production techniques changed between Aikea and Tiny Dyamine with more use of effects, layering, sequencers, and creating an overall colourful atmosphere.

"Pop/Traditional:" BBK, HLV, FCC, M&K

I see this last period as coinciding with BBK, though, I do not think that album or much of what occured later was commerical in a traditional sense. Although, I have never thought about post-BBK being the turning point, I can see that now that I really think about it. Really, BBK was the last time Fraser decided to sing entirely in a made/up devoid of meaning language.

I think one of my problems with M&K as an album is it didn't seem to have a personality all it's own. I think the cocteaus would have done better to expand out the EPs of that era and/or chart a new direction instead of rehashing a 8 year+ period.

Steven

[mattadore]

Originally posted by mmmender
i think that the differences in style and sound between blue bell knoll and heaven or las vegas is vast.

I was thinking about this, and while I agree that they are different in terms of sound/recording quality and production values, I think they are more similar then not, because they both show the band using sequencers and keyboards a lot more than I think they did previously, at least in a recognizable way. I also find that the music is much more straightforward, and is rendered with much less artifice (don't get me wrong, I loooooove the artifice!!!). Time signatures are fairly consistent across these two records as well, with more 4/4 tempos, and less of the 3/4 waltz-like structures and abstract or undefined tempos and compositional structures that some of their earlier to mid-period work utilized (Lots of 3/4 tempos on Treasure, and crazy time signatures and tempos on much of Victorialand, for example). So, not to refute your assertion, but just offering some additional thoughts...

[REPLICESS]

Adam,

How cute are you ?? ;)

[fredofla]

my dividing line happens a lot earlier than Blue Bell Knoll......more around the time of Treasure.

for me, Treasure is the first "mature" work by the CT.

most everything prior to Treasure is still decent work, but seems very influenced by the whole early/mid-Eighties "darkwave" impulse.

but Treasure found a way to break out of that mold; it opened up so many possibilities for producing songs that were outside of the gloomier context of the early "goth" style; music that was brighter in character, more textural and dreamier, and subsequently, more distinctive and original.


~FoLA

[algol]

At the risk of being placed on a universal ignore list, I find a dividing line at HOLV. Up until about 2 years ago, I simply could not listen to anything >=HOLV, I bought them to complete the collection, but I really didn't follow where the band had gone. In fact, BBK was even a little sketchy.

As a big goth in the '80s, I was used to seeing bands I loved leave me behind (siouxsie with Superstition... what the hell was that?, peter murphy post bauhaus, valor leading xtian death to who knows where, etc). I figured that CT had done much the same, cool. In the intervening years, I married and had a kid, and was looking for some music to mate with video of my daughter frolicking in a pumpkin patch as she searched for the perfect jack-o-lantern candidate. For some reason, I happened to scan through HOLV and stumbled upon "Pitch the Baby". Holy smokes! Not only was it a perfect match, but for the first time I "got it". I subsequently fell in love with HOLV and embraced the rest of the CT catalog.

I still have trouble watching the pumpkin video, it is truly moving for me.

algol

Upon further reflection, my resistance to BBK was actually due to a former girlfriend who loved it, but called "Carolyn's Fingers" the Hee-Hee Song.

[mmmender]

*bump*