the REAL milk and kisses

[mmmender]

i've always believed that the singles/bsides released from this era would've made for a better milk and kisses!

http://www.cocteautwins.org/~leesa/cocteautwins/cgraphix/mk_thereal.jpg

[watchlar]

you mean the b-sides on the singles??? hell yes....they are fucking amazing...ROUND is may favorite

"because, because, because, because, because, because because, because....the wheel turns...."


and CIRCLING GIRL is amazing as well

[mmmender]

no way!!! i ADORE alice.......i just love how she pronounces it....

a-liss
a-liss
a-liss
alissaliss

a-liss
a-liss
a-liss
alissaliss

ballerina

[watchlar]

oh no no no no no
sorry to disagree with you bts :)
but smile gets so tiresome...it needed to be edited down by about 40 seconds or so....

and ALICE...damn...that song is absolutely perfect...when i was in the theatre watching STEALING BEAUTY...and ALICE was playing over Liv Tyler's tearsome loneliness....I about lost it....

[watchlar]

i would add calfskin smack though...it's a honeydewdroppy trip through the garden of eden

[mmmender]

Originally posted by watchlar
i would add calfskin smack though...it's a honeydewdroppy trip through the garden of eden

booooooooooooooooooooooooooorrrrring!

roflmao

[Hale]

I am going to have to side with those in favor of "Alice." Definitely wish that one had been included.

[someotherian]

i could argue my own preferences.. for example i also love smile!
but what i know for sure is.. that thing looks like a bootleg just waiting to be made! :)

[zed]

Ian........best idea i've heard all day. two things......one,
i'd buy one or two of them inna heartbeat, two. see number one again.:cool:

z.

[Phil Lawton]

I detest the faux Nina Simone vocal on "Alice"...almost as much as I detest Nina Simone's vocals..

[watchlar]

Originally posted by mmmender


booooooooooooooooooooooooooorrrrring!

roflmao

well a big giant "ooooo la la la la la" stinky pooh on you

:eek:

[Lucibelle]

I'm pretty sure that BOTH Alice and Smile would fit! ;)

[milkwood]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
I detest the faux Nina Simone vocal on "Alice"...almost as much as I detest Nina Simone's vocals..

nope, have to disagree with u on that one.....
liz sounds nuthing like nina on alice! she sounds like a chanting choir of oriental singers....roflmao

[E-Lo]

This song is devastatingly gorgeous! Really is a full-on assault of Liz's achingly beautiful phrasing + lyrics, Robin's aquamarine guitars, and that godly Raymonde bass line pimp

I truly don't understand why this song wasn't on the mass market release of M&K and so glad to see on the The Real M&K

[ScottL]

Originally posted by Lucibelle
I'm pretty sure that BOTH Alice and Smile would fit! ;)

Oh yeah! Definitely for me, actually I could lose Round or Violaine for Tranquil Eye...as much as I don't get anything out of the song Violaine, the 4 extra songs from the 2 Violaine singles are my favorites of this era.

And personally I find Violaine more boring than Calfskin Smack, while the latter doesn't blow me away, I always find listening to Liz's vocals pleasant there. I enjoy Half Gifts easily more than both of those though, however I prefer the BBC version(which is the only M&K track I favor the BBC version of)...jeez I'm just divulging preferences left and right..tis the thread for it tho. Seems a popular notion none the less that M&K didn't really comprise of the best material of the era, regardless of differences of taste, don't you think?

PS. I agree ELo, the bassline in PH in pure finesse

[Phil Lawton]

nope, have to disagree with u on that one.....

Milky

Are we talking about the same song? Your description sounds more like "An Elan", which IS rather excellent.

[Adam]

http://cocteautwins.republika.pl/milky.jpg

[watchlar]

all you Serpentskirt haters you!!!!


;)

[ScottL]

actually I like it ok, her singin in that song(like Calfskinsmack) is quite pleasant for me. Songwriting drags for me likewise however.

[crushed]

two songs that top everything from this era (except "ups" and "seekers" on M&K) are "circling girl" and "tranquil eye". I'm a bit partial to "smile" as well

[curetwins]

should've been a double disc and i'll always say that!

[halation]

I prefer the version of Rilkean Heart on Twinlights. I would also Calfskin Smack to that list also.

[E-Lo]

I concur, the Twinlight's spare, intimate Rilkean Heart is unbelievable compared to the strange carnival-esque version on M&K.

I would also vote the Otherness Violane instead the version on M&K that sometimes makes me want to do a slow head-bang a la Beavis and Butthead! 666

[Ana Lemma]

The Twinlights version of "Half-gifts" ought to be included on this album, as well. Always liked the pigeon-like manner in which Liz coos "my fam-il-e-e-e-e".

[anelan]

Alice is my least favourite CT song since ooooh Peppermint Pig.

[zed]

calfskinsmack MUST stay....most people seem indifferent about it.
i, on the other hand fine it absurdly beautiful. the little tinkleing symbol at the begining is just amazing..........besides, i'm a sucker for oohh la la's! ;)

zedballerina

[mmmender]

a big thumbs down for the entire release of twinlights! gag.

.........here they come!

[Phil Lawton]

No, I'm with you on that, Lees, as you well know.

As a ventriloquist's dummy would say "Ot a load oth gollocks".

[watchlar]

Originally posted by mmmender
a big thumbs down for the entire release of twinlights! gag.

.........here they come!


yeah...er um...i don't think so...i think twinlights is amazing...especially right before sleep cycles. and the twinlights videos are the best they've ever done....well except evangeline...that is my favorite...the rest are pretty lame. HOLV is nice just because she looks so "together"....carolyn's fingers is unwatchable...

[steven]

By and large, I like 'Twinlights' Actually, I do prefer the intro/outro and acapela music to anything on twinlights. Really, I think the intro/outro (video) is some of the best cocteau twin music EVER even though it is short. I always put those two pieces as bookends on compilations I create. I would bet you there those songs were cut from longer creations...I wish we could see the light of day on that stuff....

S.

[watchlar]

Originally posted by steven
Really, I think the intro/outro (video) is some of the best cocteau twin music EVER even though it is short.
S.

OH MY GOODNESS steven..i was just saying this to Mender the other day....I was really hoping for an instrumental album similar to those two pieces....magical

[chevelu]

serpenskirt and eperdu should definitively be on it.
but to make it work that way, it would have to be over 10 tracks.

OVER the CT maximum.

[mmmender]

now i'm "psychotic" for not liking twinlights?

okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay then. :rolleyes:

[multymfoiled]

I'll admit that I don't listen to Twinlights often, so I don't think "psychotic" is a fair discription. I was listening today, but I had a strange urge to hear the stripped down version of "Pink Orange Red".

[steven]

My gripe against Twinlights is it's so damn short - 14 minutes - especially given the price.

S.

[Phil Lawton]

14 minutes too long.

[Phil Lawton]

B

Sorry, mate, but I find "Golden Vein" insipid and uninspiring.

[mmmender]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
Sorry, mate, but I find "Golden Vein" insipid and uninspiring.

too right!!

[mmmender]

*bump*

[Phil Lawton]

And my opinion hasn't changed with the passage of time.

[keefy]

Originally posted by curetwins
should've been a double disc and i'll always say that!

Yeh, I've often wondered why CT songs and albums are so damn short. You put them on and they're over before you you know it.

CT music really got cool for me when I ripped them all to mp3's, and crossfaded them in my mp3 player. Have it go for more than two hours and it's *astonishing*.

[loomer]

I too feel that the b-sides would have made for better album tracks, although that would take away the joy of the single. Robert Smith is the same way... always puts the goods on the b-sides.

I love the artwork for the singles too. :)

[fraserfaye]

nnnnnnnnneeeeeed fire:)

[Phil Lawton]

Originally posted by fraserfaye
nnnnnnnnneeeeeed fire:)

Seconded.

[mmmender]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
Seconded.

UGH!!!!!!!!!

[mmmender]

need fire is just wrong.
plain and simple. and i'm willing to go head to head with anyone who feels differently.

[Phil Lawton]

Originally posted by mmmender
need fire is just wrong.
plain and simple. and i'm willing to go head to head with anyone who feels differently.

Go on, then, doll....what's your problem with "Needfire"?

[mmmender]

*said in my best 'beauty contestant being asked important question' voice*

"well phil, i just simply think it's wrong and they can do better......oh and i'd like world peace."

[iceblink555]

I'll add a third vote to the Need-Fire support camp, tho I doubt I'd add it to M&K. I prefer to leave the albums the way they are.

BTW, I still need Need-Fire on vinyl. Has anybody seen the Judge Dredd promo 12" for sale anywhere?!

--Alan

[Phil Lawton]

Originally posted by mmmender
*said in my best 'beauty contestant being asked important question' voice*

"well phil, i just simply think it's wrong and they can do better......oh and i'd like world peace."

This is going "head to head"?

OK, let me start.

"Needfire" is full of passion and drama, borrowing thamtically from Pink Floyd's "Echoes". Excellently produced, it showcases Liz's vocal range (scale and style) and builds to a wall of sound. Why it was never included on a full blown CT album is beyond me.

Define "wrong" for me.

There yers go, Lees.

P.S. funniest reply from a beauty contest hopeful, when asked what she wanted to do in the future:

"I want to be a steel stockholder."

Beats working with kids, I guess.

[Phil Lawton]

Originally posted by iceblink555

BTW, I still need Need-Fire on vinyl. Has anybody seen the Judge Dredd promo 12" for sale anywhere?!

--Alan

Al

You want me to hunt you a copy down?

[postlibyan]

Originally posted by curetwins
should've been a double disc and i'll always say that!

i gotta agree with Curetwins here! after i accumulated all of the singles, i made a 90 minute mix tape that consisted of:
- all the b-sides
- the album tracks (minus "Seekers" and "Rilkean Heart" -- see below for why)
- the Mark Radcliffe live version of "Seekers" found on the _BBC Sessions_ set (that just works so much better, IMHO),
- the version of "Rilkean Heart" from -Twinlights_ -- again, i think it works better
- "Golden Vein" from Twinlights
- "Worship Me" from Simon's solo album
- "Touch Upon Touch"

i think that's it. anyway -- it makes an AWESOME car tape.... i listened to just that for months and months....

so yeah -- if it had been a 2-disc set it woudl have worked for me.

PJK

[Jeek]

Needfire is full of urgency and passion.

Twinlights, especially Rilkean Heart is insipid. Those horribly earnest lyrics, almost as bad as Gabriel/Bush's Don't Give Up schlock!

[Phil Lawton]

Originally posted by gkjsooley
Needfire is full of urgency and passion.

Twinlights, especially Rilkean Heart is insipid. Those horribly earnest lyrics, almost as bad as Gabriel/Bush's Don't Give Up schlock!

Thanks, GK. Exactly right on both counts.

[fredofla]

when i first heard Needfire i loved it.

a dozen or so listens later, i only liked it, and now i mostly tolerate it.

to me, Needfire has a much stronger melodic hook than usual for a CT song (and in some ways this ends up more a weakness than a strength......it's almost too overpowering.)

i'm convinced the problem with this song has nothing to do with the performances or the electro-production (all of which are excellent) and has everything to do with a somehwhat overstated and repetitive melody line.

it does, however, make perfect sense as part of a brassy pop movie score; but i'm glad it was positioned there and not as a track on M&K.

in many ways, Violaine is equally aggressive and yet works far, far better, doesn't it.


FRED of LA

np: Najwa "Mayday"

[Colin]

So what's the process with B-sides?? Were B-sides written after the album had been completed, or was all material recorded, and then decisions were made to sort tracks as singles/album tracks/B-sides?? Or were albums sealed, and then the group got together to write some B-sides?

I know some B-sides were pulled from side projects (Alice, for example), but I mean generally. I understand some groups write like 30 songs for an album, trash fifteen, save a few for B-sides, and the album is the rest. Simon made it clear on another thread they didn't "over-record", but were B-sides recorded along with the albums and set aside, or were they a separate exercise??

Simon?? Robin?? Liz??;)

[fredofla]

Originally posted by Colin
So what's the process with B-sides?? Were B-sides written after the album had been completed, or was all material recorded, and then decisions were made to sort tracks as singles/album tracks/B-sides?? Or were albums sealed, and then the group got together to write some B-sides?

I know some B-sides were pulled from side projects (Alice, for example), but I mean generally. I understand some groups write like 30 songs for an album, trash fifteen, save a few for B-sides, and the album is the rest. Simon made it clear on another thread they didn't "over-record", but were B-sides recorded along with the albums and set aside, or were they a separate exercise??

Simon?? Robin?? Liz??;)


i've also wondered these same questions, especially about the excellent M&K b-sides.

i do hope R or S will check in with some enlightenment.


-FoLA

[ResetTwo]

Originally posted by gkjsooley
Those horribly earnest lyrics, almost as bad as Gabriel/Bush's Don't Give Up schlock!

After so much CT listening, I've become fairly immune to the meaning of lyrics even when they are in English. Most bands have unimpressive lyrics anyway so it's a useful trait to have.

[pixel radar]

I'm a big fan of a LOT of the late period stuff but:

Need- Fire is a yawn-a-thon and it scams a riff from Echoes for good measure.
In fact that riff IS the song- Nothing else happens.
It's all smoke and mirrors- nothing really happening here- move on.
"OK" production but nothing special for Robin
There's throwaway and then there's Need Fire.
Not only is it wrong it's entirely incorrect.
BORING!

Sounds like some smart arse doing a piss take

00-51 secs sounds interesting
58 seconds onwards "Hang on a minute that's the Floyd
1:36- It'll get going in a minute
2:00- I'm getting a tad bored by this inferior rewrite of the Blue Bell Knoll intro.
2:14- It's doing something now- C'mon guys change that dull droning now that the vocal has varied.
2:46- Don't bother then.
3:00- This is a mess
3:34- Please stop
4:14- Thank you

Add to all this the fact it's on the JUDGE DREDD soundtrack and you have the most unessential Cocteau's track i can think of.

[Phil Lawton]

Originally posted by pixel radar
I'm a big fan of a LOT of the late period stuff but:

Need- Fire is a yawn-a-thon and it scams a riff from Echoes for good measure.
In fact that riff IS the song- Nothing else happens.
It's all smoke and mirrors- nothing really happening here- move on.
"OK" production but nothing special for Robin
There's throwaway and then there's Need Fire.
Not only is it wrong it's entirely incorrect.
BORING!

Sounds like some smart arse doing a piss take

00-51 secs sounds interesting
58 seconds onwards "Hang on a minute that's the Floyd
1:36- It'll get going in a minute
2:00- I'm getting a tad bored by this inferior rewrite of the Blue Bell Knoll intro.
2:14- It's doing something now- C'mon guys change that dull droning now that the vocal has varied.
2:46- Don't bother then.
3:00- This is a mess
3:34- Please stop
4:14- Thank you

Add to all this the fact it's on the JUDGE DREDD soundtrack and you have the most unessential Cocteau's track i can think of.

Heathen.

[mmmender]

yeah phil......what he said.

[pixel radar]

I now have to watch my back down dark streets....
A friend recently got his face smashed in- next to him a card which stated:
Congratulations! You have just met the NeedFire Barmy Army!

[Phil Lawton]

Originally posted by pixel radar
the NeedFire Barmy Army!

A fine body of citizens, committed to upholding good family values and to keeping non-believing heretics off our streets.

[noboybands]

Originally posted by Colin
I know some B-sides were pulled from side projects (Alice, for example)

what 'side projects'? soundtracks, you mean?

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
A fine body of citizens, committed to upholding good family values and to keeping non-believing heretics off our streets.

i'll help you hunt them down, phil - i reckon 'need-fire' is reet bo

[kookaburra]

Originally posted by noboybands
i reckon 'need-fire' is reet bo

If this means DYN-O-MITE, you are correct.

[noboybands]

aye, 'appen it does young fella

(although 'reet bo' sounds like it could easily be a lost CT track ...)

[icesore]

Originally posted by Colin
So what's the process with B-sides?? Were B-sides written after the album had been completed, or was all material recorded, and then decisions were made to sort tracks as singles/album tracks/B-sides?? Or were albums sealed, and then the group got together to write some B-sides?
B]

actually i hv same questions in how B-sides produced...or mayb i should ask what is B-sides? ive been wondering abt it for years...can anyone solve my questions? thanks :blush:

[Phil Lawton]

Originally posted by noboybands
what 'side projects'? soundtracks, you mean?



i'll help you hunt them down, phil - i reckon 'need-fire' is reet bo

Proper bo, ah tell thee.

[Baddy2shoos]

can i get a reeeeewind! chamone muther fucker!

[Colin]

How could you?? How could you all??

This talk of "Need Fire" led me to dig through my parents' basement where I long ago stored away CDs I seldom listened to. "It couldn't be all that bad," I thought. "I've gotta hear it again; I'll probably like it OK. . . ."

Well, turns out some things are best left burried in the basement. I won't forgive you all anytime soon. :angry:

[E-Lo]

Golly gosh, just listened to Need-Fire and I don't think its that bad. In fact kinda still like it, save for the creaky-old electrolady "goodbye" loop Liz does at the end. I remember when first heard the first few seconds of that steady 4/4 beat and getting all excited that CT had done a disco song!

What still bores me to death however are many of those much-lauded M&K b-sides like Tranquil Eye, Flock of Soul, An Elan. Primitive Heart is really the only redeeming one for me

[iceblink555]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
Al

You want me to hunt you a copy down?

I'd be most grateful, Phil. Not sure if it'll be easier to find in the UK or not, but it's worth a shot. It used to pop up on ebay.com from time to time a few years ago, but then seemed to disappear. I've got a pic of it and all the descr. info, which I could send you after I move later this week (it's in storage).

--Alan

[iceblink555]

Originally posted by E-Lo
What still bores me to death however are many of those much-lauded M&K b-sides like Tranquil Eye, Flock of Soul, An Elan. Primitive Heart is really the only redeeming one for me

I'm totally with you on this one, Ernie!

I've fairly recently gotten into Primitive Heart after hearing Coastal's excellent cover version. Kinda made me re-discover the CT original. The only other b-side from '94 or later that I really like is Circling Girl.

--Alan