Cocteau song-building technique

[gary_exo]

i know they generally didn't do this but i'd like to know if ANY songs were constructed from the ground up around Elizabeth's vocals.

i don't know of any but i feel that it could well have happened at some point over their career.

[fredofla]

Originally posted by gary_exo
i know they generally didn't do this but i'd like to know if ANY songs were constructed from the ground up around Elizabeth's vocals.

i don't know of any but i feel that it could well have happened at some point over their career.


this is by far the most intelligent question and thoughtful thread that i've yet to see on this list.

i only hope it gets the attention it well deserves.

hey Simon....? (this one's for you, bud!)

....and for all of us who care more about how the CT music actually got put together in the studio (instead of oh so many more polls and cute guessing games.)

ugh.


FRED of LA

curious to know how Liz used improvisation during recording sessions to create all of those many layered counter-melodies.

[mmmender]

fred, i'm sorry if the "cute guessing games and polls" are not to your liking but let's be realistic here - this is a band that broke up ages ago. at least we've managed to form a community, one that i'm quite proud of, one where i can chat not just about music but about silly things. thanks to the members of this board i've been introduced to some fantastic music that i wouldn't otherwise have heard. i'm sorry you don't see it the same as i do.

[watchlar]

my motto....if you don't want to involve yourself with those threads...then don't read em...this is far more than a discussion board about anything and everything cocteau...this is a meeting place for people who have grown fond of each other...and friends have fun together...let's keep it fun and not judge each other...whatdya say....

[fredofla]

Originally posted by mmmender
fred, i'm sorry if the "cute guessing games and polls" are not to your liking but let's be realistic here - this is a band that broke up ages ago. at least we've managed to form a community, one that i'm quite proud of, one where i can chat not just about music but about silly things. thanks to the members of this board i've been introduced to some fantastic music that i wouldn't otherwise have heard. i'm sorry you don't see it the same as i do.

i do appreciate what you've created here, Leesa.....i guess i just don't "get" the connection between CT and cannibalism.
no matter; i apologize if i am sometimes outspoken and abrupt here. there's certainly a lot of worthwhile people here, yes....and that makes all the difference. if i didn't like this place a lot, i wouldn't bother posting here. i'm just an opinionated ole CT coot.....pay me no mind.

[fredofla]

Originally posted by watchlar
my motto....if you don't want to involve yourself with those threads...then don't read em...this is far more than a discussion board about anything and everything cocteau...this is a meeting place for people who have grown fond of each other...and friends have fun together...let's keep it fun and not judge each other...whatdya say....

fair enough......sometimes i just get a little bit ornery at day's end. sorry.

[Colin]

Back to our regularly scheduled thread. . . ;)

I recall reading in an interview (or maybe one of Simon's posts here) that recording sessions for the ill-fated, unreleased last album found the Twin experimenting with new ways to construct songs. The impression was left that they had used one (maybe two) methods previously. We can only wonder if your suggested technique was one they tried.

Anyone else recall that interview / posting? Maybe it gives more detail.

[folly]

booost!

anyone anyone?? :confused:

:whip: :whip: boost!

would love to see this thread further discussed! :D

[crushed]

i just understood from interviews over the years (i remember a particular interview in the Emigre "4AD issue" which discussed their recording techniques, for instance) that until late in their career they built the songs instrument by instrument, starting with a drum, bass, or guitar track. Very organically, is the feeling i got. Depending on the amount and type of drugs ingested in individual recording session, they would just keep layering until it felt finished (and then, add a little more).

i always understood that Liz came in and added her contributions last.

[etc etc]

Well, well,
I was so tempted to spank FredofLA for yet another pompous 'self appointed arbiter of good taste and intelligence' posting, but once again someone higher up on the food chain did the spanking for me! Butt, I feel I must indulge myself.....so......WHACK!!!!!!!.....there is one well applied cyberspank to the cyber-bottom of Fred.

[steven]

In an radio interview Simon did for KCRW in Los Angeles on the FCC tour in 1994 he spoke a bit about the cocteaus technique for recording music. He stated that much of the creative process was done in isolation from the other band members...sometimes he would be alone in the studio working on something or Robin would be alone, then they would come together and "piece music together in each other's absence." After they came up with the instrumenal tracks, Liz would out down the vocals.

Simon had a really funny line about making music is really a private, personal thing and it was even hard "being in the same room with Robin." He also remarked that he often recorded Liz's vocals and she had a tendency to throw a fit in the studio.

Also, he stated that "Theft and Wandering Around Lost" was recorded together, and was he first song recorded after Guthrie came back from rehab.

I've also read throughout the years that the first songs recorded with Simon "Millemillenary" Spangle Maker EP were recorded with Robin and Simon together in the studio.

The only other information I could add was there was a recent thread on here where Simon talked about which songs he played bass and guitar on and I believe he remarked Liz wrote the music for Beatrix before they did the instrumental.

I think it's a safe bet to conclude they probably employed many different production techniques over the years just as a consequence of change and being around for such a long (short) period.

Steven

[fredofla]

Originally posted by etc etc
Well, well,
I was so tempted to spank FredofLA for yet another pompous 'self appointed arbiter of good taste and intelligence' posting, but once again someone higher up on the food chain did the spanking for me! Butt, I feel I must indulge myself.....so......WHACK!!!!!!!.....there is one well applied cyberspank to the cyber-bottom of Fred.


jeesh.

go take a valium you silly bottom feeder.


LOL.


food chain, indeed!


FoLA
....your friendly self appointed arbiter of good taste and intelligence; well, at least you got that part right.

[watchlar]

Originally posted by steven

He also remarked that he often recorded Liz's vocals and she had a tendency to throw a fit in the studio.


Steven

shocker

[fredofla]

Originally posted by steven
In an radio interview Simon did for KCRW in Los Angeles on the FCC tour in 1994 he spoke a bit about the cocteaus technique for recording music. He stated that much of the creative process was done in isolation from the other band members...sometimes he would be alone in the studio working on something or Robin would be alone, then they would come together and "piece music together in each other's absence." After they came up with the instrumenal tracks, Liz would out down the vocals.

Simon had a really funny line about making music is really a private, personal thing and it was even hard "being in the same room with Robin." He also remarked that he often recorded Liz's vocals and she had a tendency to throw a fit in the studio.

Also, he stated that "Theft and Wandering Around Lost" was recorded together, and was he first song recorded after Guthrie came back from rehab.

I've also read throughout the years that the first songs recorded with Simon "Millemillenary" Spangle Maker EP were recorded with Robin and Simon together in the studio.

The only other information I could add was there was a recent thread on here where Simon talked about which songs he played bass and guitar on and I believe he remarked Liz wrote the music for Beatrix before they did the instrumental.

I think it's a safe bet to conclude they probably employed many different production techniques over the years just as a consequence of change and being around for such a long (short) period.

Steven


thanks for the enlightenment, Steven.

this is the first i've heard of this, and it's really quite useful.


FRED of LA
.....loving enlightenment, first and foremost.

[fredofla]

Originally posted by crushed
i just understood from interviews over the years (i remember a particular interview in the Emigre "4AD issue" which discussed their recording techniques, for instance) that until late in their career they built the songs instrument by instrument, starting with a drum, bass, or guitar track. Very organically, is the feeling i got. Depending on the amount and type of drugs ingested in individual recording session, they would just keep layering until it felt finished (and then, add a little more).

i always understood that Liz came in and added her contributions last.


this is also interesting......and in so many ways sounds almost analagous to the process of making a painting.

there can be no doubt that the "recording studio" must have always played a large part of the CT method, which probably also accounts for their distinctive songwriting when compared to so many of their "live rock band" styled contemporaries.


~FoLA

[Colin]

Originally posted by steven
He stated that much of the creative process was done in isolation from the other band members...

Steven, Thanks for sharing this info. It is very illuminating, on a very personal level.

Of course many of us find their work rich in emotion (emotion which defies language). On a gut level, I always personally felt there was an understanding of isolation in their work. Not simple loneliness -- but a profound sense of disconnect between the outer world and the inner spirit.

It is personally interesting for me as well because I can only create my art in isolation. People have asked to come with me on photo shoots, but I just can't get into my "creative space" if anyone else is anywhere near by. Even a passerby can blow the intense interior focus critical to my work.

It is interesting given the absense of lyrics to know on a gut level that you understand the work emotionally, and then to have a common thread defined is powerful. Thanks.

[ScottL]

Here are links to 2 threads where Simon stuff mentioned by Steven:
Factual statements and Gushing (http://www.herb-bauer.com/~leesa/cocteautwins/vBulletin/full/showthread.php?s=&threadid=399)

how low can you go? (http://www.herb-bauer.com/~leesa/cocteautwins/vBulletin/full/showthread.php?s=&threadid=429)


The latter has the biggest post from Simon on the subject.

[©nevery]

No, the base, the foundation of the song is built, then come the main vocals, then they’ll put all kinds of hissing-droning-ringing-windblowing, etc. juices on the background (like a painting) and then there will be added things that go specifically on the left or right channel, be it vocals or tiny guitars and other stuff. But since there is no fixed procedure, you better ask Simon about it—of course one can take some of the ‘only voice’ tracks of a given song and mix them in some sort of ‘m-attack’ type o’ song : example –Seekers who are Lovers bits go into m-attack song

added later:
here you go Fred! you can feel it

......and in so many ways sounds almost analagous to the process of making a painting

just red your comment(originally answered
having only red the first message of the page)

[gary_exo]

thanks to all who've shed small streams of light on this.

keep it coming though as i already knew much of what's been said!
(that's not to say i don't appreciate it of course!)

[Maria Jose]

I 've just read the "How low can you go ?" thread on Cocteau song
building that Simon posted some time ago.
Very enlightening and interesting .
A further addition,short though,would be Simon ' s reply to the thread
"Plain Tiger " .