i heard about a poll..

[simon raymonde]

on who is the best band The Clash or Cocteau Twins?

you can vote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/presenters/andrew_collins/

might be fun, i dunno.

[someotherian]

it would be more fun if 68% of people hadn't voted for The Clash!

not that i don't like them.. i do. but c'mon!

not sure what this says about BBC6 listeners.

incidentally, a very good friend of mine was responsible for managing the set-up of BBC6. interesting eh? ok, maybe not... :)

[Maria Jose]

Cheese and Chalk and a bit unfair on the choice and on the number of votes !!!!!!!
Everybody on these boards , let ' s vote , EN MASSE !!!!
I did already , not telling which band :D


ballerina

[kookaburra]

The poll will rather determine which band received more airplay.

To bad they didn't include Pink or Eminem.

[someotherian]

yeah it's a pretty stupid comparison for a vote.

btw i discovered the origin of the phrase 'as different as chalk and cheese' the other day.
all to do with sheep and cows apparently...

[gary_exo]

why are they comparing these 2?

i don't get it...do people just make polls for the sheer hell of it?

i love both bands but i can't vote in this way - it makes no sense!

[Maria Jose]

Originally posted by gary_exo
why are they comparing these 2?

i don't get it...do people just make polls for the sheer hell of it?

i love both bands but i can't vote in this way - it makes no sense!

Well , he says he likes both bands though you wouldn 't guess from setting up such a comparison . . .:D
People do make polls just for fun
and it makes sense to vote,I like the Clash but they 're nowhere near the Cocteaus for me simply because they just don ' t go together.
Voting makes sense to give the Cocteaus the recognition they deserve and also because all this is primarily about HAVING FUN :D :p :D
I mean just seeing the band ' s name is worth !!!

[mmmender]

i voted! :D

[gary_exo]

Originally posted by Maria Jose

Well , he says he likes both bands though you wouldn 't guess from setting up such a comparison . . .:D
People do make polls just for fun
and it makes sense to vote,I like the Clash but they 're nowhere near the Cocteaus for me simply because they just don ' t go together.
Voting makes sense to give the Cocteaus the recognition they deserve and also because all this is primarily about HAVING FUN

no,it doesn't make sense! ;)
what recognition do you give the Cocteaus by voting for them above The Clash?
you said it yourself: "they just don ' t go together" & then you say "voting makes sense".
how can it...where's the comparison?
that's right,folks...there isn't one!!! ;)

(don't get me wrong-i couldn't give a shit about this...just intrigued by some things said!)666

[gary_exo]

Originally posted by mmmender
i voted! :D

you dumb cow!
;)

[kookaburra]

I was pleasantly surprised to see that the results aren't favoring the Clash more heavily than they are.

[Maria Jose]

Originally posted by gary_exo
no,it doesn't make sense! ;)
what recognition do you give the Cocteaus by voting for them above The Clash?
you said it yourself: "they just don ' t go together" & then you say "voting makes sense".
how can it...where's the comparison?
that's right,folks...there isn't one!!! ;)
(don't get me wrong-i couldn't give a shit about this...just intrigued by some things said!)666

I do understand what you mean,though . My point is, precisely because
they 're different voting makes sense to me , it' s an easy choice.
But,again,above all,this is about having fun !:D

[JohnnyV]

Originally posted by kookaburra
I was pleasantly surprised to see that the results aren't favoring the Clash more heavily than they are.

that was my reaction too. 51% v. 49% would be cool.

I love the clash too. They were also one of those bands that made me listen to something different.

[randomrob]

I think the clash vs. the jam would be a better comparison...

[etc etc]

Funny the Clash should be popping up all over the place after poor Joe lost the skin he was in prison in.....It just kills me to see Bruce Springsteen, Steven Van Zandt, Elvis Costello and Dave Grohl get up at the Scammy Awards and pay tribute, especially the first two blowhards..it was probably the best moment of the night, but that ain't saying much!! I was a huge fan of the Clash here in the late 70's and early 80's, I will go to my own deathbed convinced that Sandinista, yes Sandinista, is one of the best albums ever made and they never got the credit they deserved...I caught so much crap from the REO Crapwagon fans, Styx, J.Geils, Van Halen, Doors/Beatles etc revivalists during that period, and now the Clash are hailed (by the same idiots who dismissed them) as heroes?... I suppose that's just how it goes..God knows Cocteau Twins didn't get the attention they deserved, but what do I know......So...while you are still up and kicking Simon, I pay tribute to your music with a heartfelt Thank You. Long live Joe!!! Don't Smoke Cigarettes people..they will put you in an early grave like Mr. Mellor.....Let's hear it for unsung genius, I'm sure widespread popularity would have killed both of these bands earlier....Combat Rock sure did in the Clash.....

[Maria Jose]

[i]Originally posted by etc etc Don't Smoke Cigarettes people..they will put you in an early grave like Mr. Mellor.....

You know how you call cigarettes in Birmhingham speak ?
Coffin nails !!!
:(

ballerina a non-smoker . . .

[Maria Jose]

Any Brummies out there ?
My apologies for having typed Birmingham too fast in my previous post !!
:o

[Maria Jose]

Clash vs Cocteaus is no more !!
They have a new poll , Ultravox and The Human League !
Anybody checked the final results ?
How close did we get to Strummer and Co ???
:confused:

[mattadore]

Originally posted by Maria Jose


You know how you call cigarettes in Birmhingham speak ?
Coffin nails !!!
:(

ballerina a non-smoker . . .

I like to refer to them as "lung pistols" myself.... and I'm another non-smoker. :)

[zed]

hmmmm.........hung up muh holster six years ago.
shit! THAT'S what AIR smells like!!

that's a poll??? on this website??

'scuse me, i'm late for electro shock.

Z :eek:

[Brett]

Originally posted by Maria Jose
Clash vs Cocteaus is no more !!
They have a new poll , Ultravox and The Human League !
Anybody checked the final results ?
How close did we get to Strummer and Co ???
:confused:

It was Clash 67%, CT's 33% when I voted this morning.

Silly comparison though.

[Phil Lawton]

Any Brummies out there ?

MJ

Techinically speaking, yes. I was born in Solihull and have lived here in Birmingham for most of my life, although I've wheedled out the accent (mmmender will attest to this) to now sound like a neutral, although many people think I'm from Chester.

I don't know why.

[fredofla]

Originally posted by Brett


It was Clash 67%, CT's 33% when I voted this morning.

Silly comparison though.


well, history will be the final arbiter, won't it.

and, when it comes to innovation and overall importance, the Clash will be lucky to be a mere footnote compared to the Cocteau's amazing legacy.

i still wouldn't hestiate for a moment to place the CT right along side Elvis and the Beatles when it comes to breadth of creativity and scope of importance pertaining to the music of the future.

about the only thing i would give credit to the Clash would be their affirmative introduction of soul grooves (esp dub/reggae) into the white rock lexicon.......but that's really so minor compared to the reinvention of rock into a language transcending, bucolic and dream-laden soundscape; and i dare say, this form of music is already starting to take hold of a younger generation hungry for a warmer, friendlier and more humanistic kind of music that can transport them away from the harsher realities of contemporary life.......music that keys into both our increasingly lost senses of innocense and our longing to find some kind of harmony via escape toward our own fantastic imaginations.

yeah......history will give the greater victory to the daring spirit of the Cocteau Twins, i'm certain.

[zed]

.......very nicely written fredofla........very nice indeed, and i wish it were so.
but history tells me otherwise. as far as the mass of perception out there goes,........the cocteaus havn't a chance. but true change .......it's almost always brought about by solitary figures struggling in silence that really change the world,........
the clash will win the popularity poll, but the twins will win everything else........and will always be regarded with real love by those who KNOW.

a toast to good things in life!beers

Zed:cool:

[fredofla]

Originally posted by zed
.......very nicely written fredofla........very nice indeed, and i wish it were so.
but history tells me otherwise. as far as the mass of perception out there goes,........the cocteaus havn't a chance.

Zed:cool:


but it is so.......already (though maybe not yet as any kind of mainstream phenom.)

i can easily think of at least 40 or 50 artists over the last 15 years that have been directly influenced by the original ideas of the Cocteaus. i certainly can't say the same for the Clash (who, for me, were mostly a further refinement of the waning post-punk movement.)

the Cocteau Twins defined something new that is only now beginning to take hold in the music underground, both acoustic and electronic.

the whole post-rock "quiet-is-the-new-loud" approach was only the beginning; there is a whole range of younger artists now who are starting to compose a kind futurist lullaby or electro-folk pop that signals a further advance in the possibilities of new music that is far beyond the parameters of the alternative post-rock style.

two of the best examples of this are Sigur Ros and MUM.

and both of these are artists seem to be fully capable of holding their own even in mainstream quarters.

i will agree that popular tastes are slow to change......but with the glut of so many bands vying for media attention, it's no surprise that the pendulum of growth has taken a slower course than it did in the 60s and 70s.

but soon enough, over time, everything will clarify......and i do believe that the Cocteau Twins will eventually be recognized as absolute visionaries in the same vein as artists like John Cage or Igor Stravinky or, yes, Brian Eno (another good example of an artist who has taken many years to eventually find a place of value among early rock critics, and who is even now being revisited and re-examined and placed into a position of higher visibility than ever.)

CT fans should hang in there; the music will sustain itself because there is nothing else quite like it.

true originality can make all the difference in the world.

FoLA

np: the lotus eaters "silentspace"

[Maria Jose]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton


MJ

Techinically speaking, yes. I was born in Solihull and have lived here in Birmingham for most of my life, although I've wheedled out the accent (mmmender will attest to this) to now sound like a neutral, although many people think I'm from Chester.

I don't know why.

My fate ! Most people I like seem to come from darkest , deepest Midlands:p Wonderful piece , Fred.
See ? The purpose of a poll is to make people talk .
It ' s good to say it again , the Cocteaus are one of the best bands ever .

[Phil Lawton]

MJ

I'm disturbed by your apparent knowledge of English Midland conurbations.

Back off now before it's too late and you find yourself hip-deep in mushy peas and faggots (back.....get back, Lovejoy....a faggot here is a small, meatball type affair which is, I can assure you, the devil's work).

[Maria Jose]

But , Phil , you still awake ?
I ' ve just woken up to a sunny but still cold morning .
Yeah , disturbing , innit ?
I used to live in B'ham ,apart from all other sort of places .

[dprid]

And don't forget the deep fried Mars Bars and the glorious fry-ups served on a shovel!

[fredofla]

Originally posted by Maria Jose


The purpose of a poll is to make people talk .



LOL.

well, i would qualify this a bit and say: the purpose of the _interesting_ polls is to make people talk (about the subject of the newsgroup.)

as you may have noticed, i try to participate in polls (or threads) that are music related. i'm not here to win any kind of popularity contest or give confession to my daily dietary habits.

....but that's just me, of course.

in truth, i only have so much time to devote to places like this, so i try to pick and choose my threads carefully.

gotta say, though, i always scan to read what you've posted Maria; i do value your opinion and your keen intelligence on music very much.


cheers.


Fred


np: the lotus eaters "silentspace"

[fredofla]

good morning, Maria.

good evening, Phil.



(dprid: i've no idea which mean of the day you're digesting.....)




<burp>

[dprid]

Just two more of Birminghams many contributions to the world of culinary art!

[Maria Jose]

Well , that IS a compliment , should be following your example more often instead of being typing here delaying breakfast and the rest before facing the unavoidable : work .
I ' m afraid I ' ll have to run to the station today , for a change :(

[Maria Jose]

Originally posted by dprid
Just two more of Birminghams many contributions to the world of culinary art!

Among many others , I should say !
( I know there must be somebody lurking out there waiting to mention
Ozzy Osbourne and the rest of the metalheadz )

[gary_exo]

Originally posted by Maria Jose
Any Brummies out there ?
My apologies for having typed Birmingham too fast in my previous post !!
:o

i was actually born in Sutton Coldfield Maria Jose but i'm afraid i wasn't raised in that area-it then went Surrey & Sussex for me! i keep going south...i'd like to end up in Tahiti.

any Tahitians (or indeed,French Polynesians) here?

[gary_exo]

Originally posted by Maria Jose
Any Brummies out there ?
My apologies for having typed Birmingham too fast in my previous post !!
:o

i was actually born in Sutton Coldfield Maria Jose but i'm afraid i wasn't raised in that area-it then went Surrey & Sussex for me! i keep going south...i'd like to end up in Tahiti.

any Tahitians (or indeed,French Polynesians) here?

[Lucibelle]

Oh, SHITSHITSHIT!!!!!!! I missed the whole thing! :( Though I think whoever thought up this poll may have been biased. The Clash vs. Cocteau Twins?!?!? That's like racing a ferrari against a subaru. You KNOW who's gonna win it! :rolleyes: Personally, I say if you're going to do a poll of bands from that era, and one band is CT, then the other band HAS to be Dead Can Dance. Those two have been compared to each other for AGES!!! Now, if we were to have that poll run here, I think we all know who the winner would be! ;) But if you were to put those two together on the same poll that just happened, (replace the Clash with DCD, for those of you who are stoned at the moment) I think it would not only be interesting, but I definately think that the numbers would be repectably close together. C'mon, idiots! Compare apples to apples! Not apples to pizza! Pizza's gonna win! Duuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

:D

[kookaburra]

Originally posted by Lucibelle
Personally, I say if you're going to do a poll of bands from that era, and one band is CT, then the other band HAS to be Dead Can Dance

Compare apples to apples! Not apples to pizza! Pizza's gonna win! Duuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

Superb statements.

[Maria Jose]

While understanding what 's been said about apples,pizzas and the rest,
I cannot compare or even put in the same category the Cocteaus and DCD .
Their only common points were sharing a label,participating in said label ' s
projects and Lisa 's singing based on phonetics - I saw her little papers once!- rather than words .
Apart from that,they were totally opposite worlds,converging from time to time.
There is another thread with some more Lisa / Liz comparison.

[Maria Jose]

That I don' t like comparing them doesn ' t really mean that I don't like
DCD .
I actually like them very much but that's not difficult because I have an interest in medieval music and for a time they drew inspiration from those sources as well as some very famous literature, then they went for world music but still they did it well ,and Lisa Gerrard' s work has been mostly good.


:dance: :dance: :dance:

[Maria Jose]

Honesty is a virtue;)

[fredofla]

as much as i admire DCD, the only album of theirs that had any kind of appeal for me was Labyrinth, and even that one i haven't bothered to add to my CD collection.

i do own LG's "The Mirror Pool" which i quite like, but i sold off the "Duality" album a long time ago....it seemed sort of compromised and watered-down.

i also think that Brendan Perry's "Eye Of The Hunter" has a lot to offer and i am glad to own that one, too.

personally, i think these Gerrard and Perry are far more interesting as solo artists than they were as Dead Can Dance.

but i'm sure this probably a minority opinion hereabouts.



FoLA

np: Gigi "Illuminated Audio"

[Lucibelle]

No, really! Be honest! :D

While I figured my comments might set off a couple of sparks, it's of course, just my opinion. But remember, this was about who to put CT up against in a poll, nothing else. I already mentioned who would get the most votes from this bunch! ;)

My biggest point to make was simply, 'who, from that era, was creating a similar impact on people with similar tastes?'. While I've nothing against the Clash, but it's harder to find fans of CT within that group of fans than it is to find them within the fans of DCD. From my own experience, (which only covers a limited area) if you liked CT, there was a very good chance of DCD appealing to you, and vice-versa. But if you were REALLY into the Clash, like devotees are REALLY into Cocteau Twins, if someone played head over heals, maybe. If someone played Victorialand, the response may go more like 'Jesus! Would you turn that off! I'm not ready for bed yet!' :rolleyes: I'm not trying to over-classify, but I'd think it would be hard to find a hardcore CT fan that has NOT had a similar experience.

But, (everyone I know has a big 'but') one thing to notice is that it DID create a response. Do I think CT and DCD made the same kind of music? Of course not! Do I think they appeal to the same kinds of people? Well, alot moreso than the CLASH!! roflmao

So that's my point. I just felt, especially with all the comparisons between the two, whether you agree with them or not, that it was a better comparison than the one they came up with. I don't think there's ANYONE out there from that era (or beyond, for that matter) that compares with CT. But I also feel the same is true for DCD. They were label mates, sure, but they were also both mellow, (though not entirely) beautiful and emotional bands who both created unique sounds using uncommon techniques, who's female singers you could not understand! :D So while their music IS different, I think their similarities make for a logical choice. There are LOTS of similarities, right down to when they came together, broke up, and even afterward. Both women went on to do soundtracks, all of the men have even released solo efforts. Both were also very appealing to the 'goth' crowd during their existense.

Of course, now the question is, if not DCD, who should have been in the Clash's place for this poll? I have not seen any other suggestions. I'm not defending myself, I'm just curious. Remember, from that era. I can't think of anyone else. Certainly not.... The CLASH!!! lol!

[mattadore]

Originally posted by Lucibelle
(everyone I know has a big 'but')

Hey, mine's not that big, although I always gain weight while hibernating in the winter. Darn it, back to the gym for me! :rolleyes:

[kookaburra]

Luci,

I still think that this was an excellent idea. Though I most certainly would have voted for CT in your poll, it would have taken more than the mere split second it took to cast my vote in the actual poll.

[Lucibelle]

Originally posted by mattadore


Hey, mine's not that big, although I always gain weight while hibernating in the winter. Darn it, back to the gym for me! :rolleyes:
Mine's gotten bigger from sitting at my computer all day, posting onto this fan site. You know, someone called Coctail somethingorother.... Buncha FREAKS there, man! Especially the moderators. Fuckin' wierdos, they are! :D


To kookaburra, good point! How long did anyone from either side have to think about 'hmmmmmm..... The Clash....... or Cocteau Twins? Hmmmmm....... let me think.....'. roflmao

[Maria Jose]

Originally posted by Lucibelle
While I figured my comments might set off a couple of sparks



Of only the brightest quality , Lucibelle !!! ;)

[Lucibelle]

Originally posted by Maria Jose



Of only the brightest quality , Lucibelle !!! ;)
Definitly!!! Freaks and wierdos, yes! But SMART freaks and wierdos! ;)

[fredofla]

Originally posted by Lucibelle
Of course, now the question is, if not DCD, who should have been in the Clash's place for this poll? I have not seen any other suggestions.



at first i was thinking of suggesting a band that might be closer to being a contemporary of the CT, the calibre of, say, Depeche Mode, or Slowdive, or maybe even My Bloody Valentine might have been a better match-up.

then again, since Kevin Shields admits that the largest MBV influence came from mostly two bands: the Cocteau Twins and the Jesus & Mary Chain, perhaps that would be the most logical pairing after-all; ie, the two polar ends of the whole shoegazer/dreampop spectrum.


FoLA

[fredofla]

Originally posted by Lucibelle
Of course, now the question is, if not DCD, who should have been in the Clash's place for this poll? I have not seen any other suggestions.



at first i was thinking of suggesting a band that might be closer to being a contemporary of the CT, the calibre of, say, Depeche Mode, or Slowdive, or maybe even My Bloody Valentine might have been a better match-up.

then again, since Kevin Shields admits that the largest MBV influence came from mostly two bands: the Cocteau Twins and the Jesus & Mary Chain, perhaps that would be the most logical pairing after-all; ie, the two polar ends of the whole shoegazer/dreampop spectrum.


FoLA

[Lucibelle]

Oooooooooh! Great choice! That would be an interesting poll indeed!! :cool:

I like your thought process on that one. I wonder who thought about putting ctblue against the Clash? Of course, maybe (s)he just looked up 'progressive bands' from 198* and took from an alphabetical list. :rolleyes:


I'm sorry, but The CLASH???? It's just such a mismatch! I'm STILL laughing over it!!! roflmao

















ok, I'll stop! ;)

[fredofla]

Originally posted by by the sea



hey fred, that was your 69th post.


hmmm, well.....time does fly by here in CT land, dunnit.

np: Petracovich "Fall From Trees"

[BLUETRAIL]

Interesting