so close to Heaven (*bumped*)

[gary_exo]

does anyone else feel ,as i do, that HOLV is let down only by one piece which is "Road,River & Rail"?
i think ,were it not for this track, the lp would begin to rival BBK as their best work as a whole.

it's strange but that track NEVER engaged me...never got inside me the way CT songs always do.
it has all the components the Twins use so well when you focus in on guitars,bass,vocals & yet ,for me at least, they fail to marry into that indefinable whole which is the Cocteaus.

feel free to dismiss as madness or wrongness - i won't care. ;)

[kookaburra]

MADNESS!

[steven]

Originally posted by gary_exo
does anyone else feel ,as i do, that HOLV is let down only by one piece which is "Road,River & Rail"?
i think ,were it not for this track, the lp would begin to rival BBK as their best work as a whole.feel free to dismiss as madness or wrongness - i won't care. ;)

Are you serious? :confused: That song is fucking brilliant. What's next people saying "Cherry Coloured Funk" is shit and "Touch Upon Touch" is a good song....


Steven

[gary_exo]

nicely dismissive!

however,do you realise that while you were being oh-so-cool* as to chuck your one-word repost you totally failed to comment because you've not stated WHAT is "madness"...the lp being let down by R,R&R...the lp being let down at all...the idea it could begin to rival BBK...my opinion on what the track fails to do...hmmmmmmmmmmmm?

get the idea?;)

sure,tell me it's mad but...tell me why.

*:rolleyes:

[gary_exo]

Originally posted by steven


Are you serious? :confused:

yes.666

That song is fucking brilliant.

no...it isn't!666

oh, the joy of individuality!
you're not gonna intimidate me,mate!

[Adam]

I think I agree with you, gary

[lake]

Gary, your honesty is so refreshing.
I have to disagree with you, on this one, at least. HOLV is not my favourite album, Victorialand is the ONE for me (BBK following closely & Treasure- OH, i cant decide!!) I find Road, River & Rail differs to other tracks, but still gives me that tingly feeling. My favourite track, however, is Frou-frou foxes in midsummer fires.

[Phil Lawton]

Gary

Careful, mate....speaking from personal experience, any sign of dissidence will bring unholy retribution upon you.

"Road" is, probably, my least favourite track on the album, but I feel it's a good leader into "Frou Frou".

What's next people saying "Cherry Coloured Funk" is shit and "Touch Upon Touch" is a good song....

Steven - our glorious webmistress, for one, hates "Cherry Coloured Funk". I don't understand, either, but taste is a funny thing.

[Baddy2shoos]

In my opinion, its one of the best on there

[ScottL]

Yeah...all opinion of course...I love RR&R and I agree it is brilliant...but mostly for the singing I think...it has a timeless mood that, for me, transcends any on that album. Also, w/CCF, the composition and basic drum beat are somewhat lackluster, but again the voice hits an emotional chord quite deep in me. Love them both. Now Fotzepolitic...its a good song, does nothing for me tho.

[Brett]

I feel this thread is heavily laden with irony. :D RR&R is by far and away the best track on that album. Yes, by some margin.

[E-Lo]

I'm with you on this one Gary, I always seem to skip Road, River, and Rail. Never quite liked it as much as say, the beautiful Mizake the Mizan or the amazing Watchlar, which IMHO would have made much more sense as album tracks, and RR&R as a B-side.

Does anyone else think the RR&R drums sound like an old DCD track, i.e., Wild in the Woods?

[multymfoiled]

I think if I had to pick a weak track on that album (but it was my first CT album so I'm partial to the whole thing), I'd have to say "I wear your ring"....But still I think it's a stretch.

But this is just my opinion. Hooray for free speech!

[gary_exo]

Originally posted by leasa
I find Road, River & Rail differs to other tracks, but still gives me that tingly feeling. My favourite track, however, is Frou-frou foxes in midsummer fires.

see,that's just what it doesn't give me!

"Frou-Frou" is my fave too on the lp!

[gary_exo]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
Gary
Careful, mate....speaking from personal experience, any sign of dissidence will bring unholy retribution upon you.



worry not kind Phil...
for i welcome dissidence...
i bring it into our world where i nurture it & bestow upon it warm fluffy baby clothes...
i sit patiently with it,taking its hand & encouraging all its wide hope & vision...
when the time is right i bid it a proud farewell,secure in the knowledge it will find its way & make its mark.

[Hale]

I disagree. I like "Road River and Rail" a lot, and I think the only song that weakens the album is "Wolf in the Breast," with its triangles and vaguely country-western sound. Something about that song just doesn't do it for me.

[©nevery]

gary, when i read your post, it doesn't make me think of
music, but it makes me think that you sound like an asshole.
assholes are driven by selfimpotrance, and songs (especially
Cocteau Twins songs) stem from feeling, whetever the "components" are

assholes, i guess, also got feeling, which however is driven
by the asshole's "components". asshole's "components"?
you tell me about it! i've figgured out a few so far:
"I'm bigger and better than you!"
"Come! Discover Me! I'm special!!!" (a command)
i've heard that the asshole's selfimpotrance is in fact
selfpity in disguise. is that right?

[randomrob]

Heaven or las vegas again= yawn.... ok, listen. I look at all the CTs albums as timeframes of a dysfunctional musical relationship held together by a unbegrudging referee against a great jazz/folk tableau in the midst of a time of godawful post/punk/alternative reaching - to say this or that track brings the whole thing down is like bashing Van Gogt for losing his neatness near the end, or bashing Gandhi for being a womanizer- the whole is worth more than the parts! Yah, 'road, river, & rail' aint the best they ever did, then again, compared to Britney Spears or Avril Lavigne's latest outing, who the fuck cares??!!!!

[lake]

Originally posted by ©nevery
gary, when i read your post, it doesn't make me think of
music, but it makes me think that you sound like an asshole.
assholes are driven by selfimpotrance, and songs (especially
Cocteau Twins songs) stem from feeling, whetever the "components" are

assholes, i guess, also got feeling, which however is driven
by the asshole's "components". asshole's "components"?
you tell me about it! i've figgured out a few so far:
"I'm bigger and better than you!"
"Come! Discover Me! I'm special!!!" (a command)
i've heard that the asshole's selfimpotrance is in fact
selfpity in disguise. is that right?

Steady on mate!

Everyone is entitled to their opioion.
I agree with you, on the thought that songs, especially CT songs,stem from feelings.
I can't, however, condone your attack on Gary.This may imply that you dimiss people for their beliefs.
We are not the thought police!ballerina

[©nevery]

ah, such an angry young lady!
if, what i addressed to Gary, was written by an administrator of this forum, then it could be like thought control.
and since it is not, it is just that: from one person who has the right to express opinnions to another such person.
and why should i be your matey?

[lake]

Originally posted by ©nevery
ah, such an angry young lady!
if, what i addressed to Gary, was written by an administrator of this forum, then it could be like thought control.
and since it is not, it is just that: from one person who has the right to express opinnions to another such person.
and why should i be your matey?

I am far from angry, if we were to meet, you would be kissed by calm aura.

You are, indeed, entitled to your opinion also.

You may decide to be, or not to be, my mate depending only on your perception of me.

And for the british contingent, may we have some arseholes once in a while, assholes can be rather tedious.;)

[ScottL]

Originally posted by leasa


I am far from angry, if we were to meet, you would be kissed by calm aura.


Actually, I read your first post, earlier at lunch, and didn't have time, but wanted to post how refreshing and pleasant your response and general attitude were...I think your calm aura comes through just fine here. Thanks.

[Phil Lawton]

Nevery

Your attitude dismays me.

[©nevery]

hello by the Sea,
There is this dearest woman, she would say things like what you cite. In her context I can get a glimpse of what she means, yet I don’t know why you site this. She was in charge of these men and women and she noticed that they were so absorbed by their personal problems that they simply couldn’t focus on anything they were engaged with. Despite their sincere motivation their days passed in a mess. Then she told them: “you should start to measure your time not in days but in hours. Give an hour or two to the activity at hand and don’t mix dreams. When you are in one dream/activity give yourself fully with all your attention, then the next hour move to another. And don’t do it from the mood of a guilty minded, industrious puritan. Enjoy it! Even if the activity is doing nothing, not thinking, give it its hour, enter that dream. And don’t mix dreams!” she even made them buy and wear watches. And then one hour for them turned into what is a day for an ordinary person. Time slowed down at will. Then these noticed that reckless and obsessive thoughts about the
self- presentation that plagued all of us through our days simply fall out with this new attitude and speed. And the strange contradiction was that through slowing down time they were even capable of acting faster and their acts carried the mark of a new intensity and beauty.
So they held tight to each dream they were engaged with, even if it were some mundane activity or something that may seem as useless and senseless. It didn’t matter, they gave it all, all their attention.
Now they were no longer acting in helter-skelter ways and when they held on to a dream they did it as if it were their last stand on earth.
And also they applied the concept of timing, knowing when to let go, to move to the next thing. To wake up in the next dream

[Phil Lawton]

What?

[Lucibelle]

Ok, I gotta step in for a moment here.

Freedom of speech and freedom of expression are valued and encouraged here. All that is asked is that everyone respect each other. Say whatever you want about any subject or issue, but no one is better than anyone else here. Please don't resort to name-calling. It is so NOT necessary! If you dissagree with someone about something, great! Tell us all about it! We can all learn from the different views of each other. But no one is an 'ass hole' simply for not agreeing with an opinion, no matter what that opinion may be.

Strong opinions are welcome. Attacks on others are not. It is really the only rule that we have here. As long as we respect each other, we can say anything we want. So please, once again, if you want to attack other board members and call each other names, there are plenty of other web forums out there that accept and thrive on this behavior. This one does not.

Respect one another. This is the only rule.

[Phil Lawton]

Luce

Why do I get the feeling that the words "ears", "falling" and "deaf" apply to our friend @Nevery?

[Lucibelle]

Originally posted by by the sea


i say... let's give cnevery a chance to speak. True. We all make mistakes, and frankly, so many other web forums operate by insulting each other and calling each other names that it seems commonplace. This site truly IS different in that way. :cool: If you think it's not, go to some other public forums and you'll see what I mean. :argue:

Nev, if you can agree to this, we can start over. I'm sorry, but Gary was not in the wrong. He stated his (rather strong ;)) opinion, but never told anyone they were so much as a jerk if they dissagreed. You, however, stepped in and immediatly called him an ass hole. Maybe you don't understand where Gary's coming from, but that does not make him an ass hole. If Gary had stolen money from you or something like that, well, then that could justify calling him an ass hole. :D But all he did was have an opinion that you did not like.

Phil, I understand where you're coming from, ESPECIALLY after the behavior of aprilskies, (if you want to know how to get banned, do a search of april's posts, read them, behave the same way. Tadaaaaa!!! Banned!) but we have had people in the past who turned their behavior around. I have to give him a fair chance. Even aprilskies had a fair chance, but he blew it.

Nev, I've been reading your posts and frankly, you're on the same path. You have a real tendancy to insult anyone who does not subscribe to your way of thinking. That's the exact kind of disrepect we're talking about. Different strokes for different folks, man. Everyone has their own gifts and weaknesses. Please respect that! You've shown real talent here, but you've also shown the exact egotism that you say you're against. ...more than once.

So please, if you want to be respected for your opinion, then you have to show the same respect back.

[©nevery]

By the sea,
Don’t complain, don’t explain!

(I’m only joking; I’ll answer to you very shortly—got to get ready for travel now.)

and the part: “appearing when administrator isn't around” escapes me completely. I really don’t know what you mean.

[kookaburra]

Originally posted by Lucibelle
[B]I'm sorry, but Gary...never told anyone they were so much as a jerk if they dissagreed.

Actually, this is how he addressed me after I had very light-heartedly disagreed with him.


"nicely dismissive!

however, do you realise that while you were being oh-so-cool* as to chuck your one-word repost you totally failed to comment..."


I certainly felt like I was being called a jerk; though my response was to merely think to myself what an a**hole he was rather than to post it.

[Lucibelle]

Hmmmmm...... Noted! ;) And you're right. Subtle. I missed it.

But when the typical behavior of any board member is to insult and disrespect, this is when problems arise. We're all entitled to slip up once in a while, or have a bad day, but if it's normal behavior it will only be tolerated for so long.

Please, RESPECT! Everyone!

[kookaburra]

Originally posted by Lucibelle
But when the typical behavior of any board member is to insult and disrespect, this is when problems arise. We're all entitled to slip up once in a while, or have a bad day, but if it's normal behavior it will only be tolerated for so long.

Please, RESPECT! Everyone!

I agree with you. In no way was I defending nevery; nor do I have any sincere contempt for gary (though I was taken momentarily sore by his jab).

To clarify my original reply for gary:

Despite the title's suggestion that the thread was about the whole album HOLV, the content of the initial post equated to nothing more than a distaste for the song Road, River and Rail--it was to this that I replied "MADNESS!" RR&R may well be my favorite song on the album.

[mmmender]

this is so nice to come home to.

[Phil Lawton]

Sorry, Mom....it was the others, not me. I tried to stop them but they wouldn't listen and then bigger boys came and drank all the grape juice and played their Kathy Kirby records.

Hug me.

[mmmender]

well phil you probably don't realize how true your joking post seems. but i just feel like i've been dealing first hand with a hospitalized kid all week to come to the board to find the same behaviour.

[mattadore]

Originally posted by mmmender
well phil you probably don't realize how true your joking post seems. but i just feel like i've been dealing first hand with a hospitalized kid all week to come to the board to find the same behaviour.

Had me worried there for a minute, thought perhaps Aidan and Liam harbour a secret fondness for the recordings of Kathy Kirby.

[Phil Lawton]

well phil you probably don't realize how true your joking post seems. but i just feel like i've been dealing first hand with a hospitalized kid all week to come to the board to find the same behaviour.

Yes...but it's always like this here.

Can I have warm milk and toasted marmosets before bedtime?

[mattadore]

We're out of marmoset just now. We do have a lovely platypus custard though.

[Phil Lawton]

We do have a lovely platypus custard though.

Is a panda-flavoured mousse out of the question? Or just moose, even?

[mattadore]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton


Is a panda-flavoured mousse out of the question? Or just moose, even?

Yes, we have that. It's prepared at your table by a large hairy simian of indeterminate species wearing a kimono. How many orders will you require?

[Phil Lawton]

It's prepared at your table by a large hairy simian of indeterminate species wearing a kimono.

Ernest Borgnine's dead, isn't he? He did look rather fetching in Oriental silks, though, as shown in his final film "Call Me Flossy".

[mattadore]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton


Ernest Borgnine's dead, isn't he? He did look rather fetching in Oriental silks, though, as shown in his final film "Call Me Flossy".

Indeed, he has shuffled off this mortal coil. Robert Blake may be looking for work, assuming he beats the murder rap.

[mmmender]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
Yes...but it's always like this here.

well i beg to differ. i know this place gets silly at times....which is what i love about it actually....i wouldn't say it's always like that. perhaps it's just that i'm a bit tired and emotional.

[Hale]

Originally posted by Lucibelle
True. We all make mistakes, and frankly, so many other web forums operate by insulting each other and calling each other names that it seems commonplace. This site truly IS different in that way. :cool: If you think it's not, go to some other public forums and you'll see what I mean. :argue:

Apparently I am too familiar with other forums; I didn't even notice whatever it is everyone has become worked up over.

[Angel]

I love the song. Plain and simple.

[Angel]

I love the song. Plain and simple.

[Lucibelle]

Ok, so I've been away for the last day dealing with family medical crisis of my own. (when it rains, it pours! eh, mmmender?;)) I'll be going now. Oh, I ate some of the leftovers in your fridge while I was here mmmender. I didn't want them to go to waste by going bad. Also, I did the dishes that were in the sink, and made you some chocolate brownies! They're in the tin next to the bread box. (but I think Phil might have sneeked in and grabbed a couple) Oh, uh.... I DID make one phone call to my boyfriend, but don't worry, I dialed 1-800-C-A-L-L-A-T-T so you wouldn't have to pay any international long-distance charges, ok?:D Ok!

Oh, and one last thing... I may not be available this Sunday night to babysit since I may be going out, but someotherian might be able to if you need him. Bye! And thanks for the $10 extra! :D

[gary_exo]

Originally posted by kookaburra

To clarify my original reply for gary:

Despite the title's suggestion that the thread was about the whole album HOLV, the content of the initial post equated to nothing more than a distaste for the song Road, River and Rail--it was to this that I replied "MADNESS!" RR&R may well be my favorite song on the album.

why didn't you say this at the time?

also,please take another look at my follow-up to you...it had a smiley in it which you didn't quote when answering Lucibelle.
yes,i was just joking with you (i thought that was what these smilies were for!).
i had hoped my thread-starting post had indicated my admiration for the whole of HOLV,aswell as my personal disappointment with R,R&R.
why else would i suggest that it might rival their (arguably) best lp?

as for some of the other things said here...well,i won't lower myself to that level.

honestly, if this is the kind of shit that follows a person starting a thread like mine it's a miracle anyone bothers!

[kookaburra]

I simply thought that you would "get" my oh-so-cool one-word response. I'll know better to be specific for you in the future.

[gary_exo]

Originally posted by kookaburra
I simply thought that you would "get" my oh-so-cool one-word response. I'll know better to be specific for you in the future.

there was just no way to tell to what you were referring...that's all.
i don't have trouble "getting" things!

[mmmender]

*bump*

[kookaburra]

Great! There goes my nice guy reputation.