Cocteau Reissues Pitchforked

[Shivers]

Bastion of dip shit indie snobbery says....
http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/watw/03-03/cocteautwins.shtml

Surprised though I was at the size of the front-page feature, I'm sure it's just another tiger trap set to ensnare the unsuspecting in a web of Wilco-loving tedium.

[Phil Lawton]

Just to allay any ideas anyone might have, I didn't write the piece. However, I found this quote VERY illuminating:

and with all due respect to Cocteau Twins guitarist Robin Guthrie's musical genius, he is not one of them. Nor does he pretend to be: "I [didn't] really want to remaster them; this is more an attempt to make a buck on behalf of 4AD."

This is somewhat at odds with the story from 4AD, who reckoned that Robin Guthrie offered THEM the chance to do these.

Mojo? Care to enlighten us?

[Maria Jose]

Wow !
Thanks for the link .
Wish Mmmender was around to spill a few words here and there .

[Phil Lawton]

MJ

I'm just holding back a very large, smug smile. Robin's quote speaks volumes about the subject that I a) ranted about, largely unsupported, b) was assured by Jo from 4AD I was mistaken about and c) was kindly sent e-mail viruses by some unknown coward(s) for my views.

Can't wait to see what the official line will be.

Perhaps Mojo will sit bolt upright and shout "Oh God....what a terrible dream!"

[postlibyan]

Originally posted by by the sea
Chris Ott quote-
band have been so inundated with requests for the track, they've acknowledged its excellence on their website."

doesn't he mean "the thinner the air"?



firstly, yeah you are right. secondly -- despite being "officially recognized" i can;t find a full damned verision of this thing anywhere! i have downloaded it several times, and each time it cuts off after about 2 minutes...

urgh.

[Maria Jose]

All I can say / have already said , from the very little I know on the matter ,
is that Robin 's quote-if it 's true - confirms what I see as an appaling lack of interest to do things properly and the contradiction of going all the way to do so , to what result I cannot tell , and not backing it with corresponding distribution or even promotion.
In the mag " Under the Radar " Issue 03 , last year,Robin says:
"The Cocteau records are selling more this year than they have in the past
ten years "
And on being asked if the artists see any of it :
"Not a bit of it .It 's frightening not to get any of it".
Makes you think about why the re-masters needed to be done . . .
More exposure ?
Cannot see it here in Japan !

[Brett]

Some people listen to music with their ears and their hearts. Others reach for the technical manual. I’m sorry but I don’t equate my listening pleasure with car mechanics.

Not aimed at you Phil as the background to your stance predates my time here. I can see your concerns. However, that piece was masturbatory at best – possibly malignant. Exactly the kind of reviewer I have no respect for. The kind of person with a £20,000 hi-fi and 6 albums, all Pink Floyd. Go away.

[Maria Jose]

Originally posted by Brett
[B]Some people listen to music with their ears and their hearts. Others reach for the technical manual. I’m sorry but I don’t equate my listening pleasure with car mechanics.

I agree with you here , Brett .

[Phil Lawton]

Brett - none taken.

The whole issue and concerns expressed by me on other threads are too nebulous and intricate to condense into a few words here. If the quote from Robin is true, I just need to hear how that stands up against everything that 4AD have posted on this forum. If the quote is fictional, then I'd expect Robin (and/or 4AD, possibly) to sue.

4AD continually posited that they were just doing Robin's bidding and that it was not just to make money (along with many, many comments of "no-one's MAKING anyone buy them").

So I'm just waiting to see what the answer will be; truth or just the scurrilous jottings of a hack?

Simple.

[fredofla]

i stand by my statement that "remastering" the original intentions of classic albums does not always guarantee an improved product; and obviously Pitchfork believes this is the case here with these CT reissues.

there is something to be said for leaving well enough alone.

and:

i hate to say Phil told ya so......but wait....really, i don't......PHIL TOLD ALL OF US SO!

so, kudos to Phil for perhaps seeing through the (4AD) Emperor's new clothes.

well, eventually i'll get to hear these puppies and make up my own mind, hopefully before laying out any $ for them.

but, as before, i am approaching these remastered CDs with many reservations (and, for better or worse, Pitchfork's negative commentary in the back of my mind.)

though, if it's any consolation, Pitchfork has always been notoriously ill-willed toward the ethereal side of new rock.

it is possible this particular review is only one more symptom of their on-going "anti-etherealist" disposition.

regardless of the possible profiteering intentions for this project by whomever, i am still hoping there is something of merit on these albums that will benefit the legend of the Cocteaus.

here again, only time will tell......


FRED of LA

[Shivers]

Horror, it seems I've opened up a can of worms! Controversy, scandal! Oh, this isn't what I had in mind at all; I didn't want to start any blasphemous rumours! I'm no whistler-blower, get back on the assembly line!!! Let's just forget this ever happenedand talk about something pleasant and glide gracefully back towards consensus. Something everyone can agree on, like mom's apple pie or Jarvis Cocker or both! :)

[fredofla]

Originally posted by Shivers
Bastion of dip shit indie snobbery says....
http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/watw/03-03/cocteautwins.shtml

....just another tiger trap set to ensnare the unsuspecting in a web of Wilco-loving tedium.


LOL.



"Wilco-loving tedium"




that's just perfect!

Pitchfork, indeed.


FoLA

....no fan of Pitchfork, either.

[mattadore]

Originally posted by FREDofLA
....no fan of Pitchfork, either.

I'll second that. Some of the most horrendously biased musical journalism on the net IMHO. Grinding the axe with a thinly veiled agenda.

[Shivers]

Pitchfork and its patronizing perverters of language, far from being the beacon voices of the "underground," are clear indicators that what passes for "independent" these days is really just a sad reflection of the mainstream. If you look past the veneer of false credibility and DIY, you'll find the same boy bands, the same sensitive girls with pianos, the arena rocking flannel has-beens and all the rest of the king's pretty little horses just tarted up with irony, sub-Costello wit and maybe a spiky bracelet or two. Bowie said it best: "Same old thing in brand new drag." Indie's ceaseless cultivation of novelty and courtship of nostalgia has made the majority blind as well as deaf. How else can one explain the substanceless plagiarisizing aberration that is Interpol?

P.S. I am an angry young man, Joe Jackson let me in through the back. :) I have no time for industry mouthpieces. If I want Propaganda I'll listen to Sparks, thank you.

[fredofla]

Originally posted by Shivers
Pitchfork and its patronizing perverters of language, far from being the beacon voices of the "underground," are clear indicators that what passes for "independent" these days is really just a sad reflection of the mainstream. If you look past the veneer of false credibility and DIY, you'll find the same boy bands, the same sensitive girls with pianos, the arena rocking flannel has-beens and all the rest of the king's pretty little horses just tarted up with irony, sub-Costello wit and maybe a spiky bracelet or two. Bowie said it best: "Same old thing in brand new drag." Indie's ceaseless cultivation of novelty and courtship of nostalgia has made the majority blind as well as deaf. How else can one explain the substanceless plagiarisizing aberration that is Interpol?



jeez......you took the words right outta my mouth, Shivers.

and a witty scribe you are as well!

thanks for speaking your (intelligent and nimbly astute) mind.

a definite asset to this newsgroup, you are!



FRED of LA

[Gipson]

I think the funniest part of the review, aside that most of it seems to have been written with the help of the cocteautwins.com history section, is that the pitchfork guy might think that the remasters are so damaging. I can't imagine a new fan thinking "That remastered Treasure is so awful! It's so deadening and compressed! I never would have loved the album if I hadn't heard the original!"

[iceblink555]

From the Pitchfork.com CT re-issues review:

"...hint Guthrie could probably use the extra cash as much as Ivo."

Ivo? I thought Ivo sold 4AD to Warner several years ago. Does he still have a financial interest in the label? --Alan

[iceblink555]

Originally posted by by the sea
Chris Ott quote-

"More recently, an enterprising and anonymous fan created a mashup-- before the genre had a name-- laying the beat from Massive Attack's "Protection" over "Feet Like Fins", Victorialand‘s finest moment and finale. The band have been so inundated with requests for the track, they've acknowledged its excellence on their website."

doesn't he mean "the thinner the air"?

"victorialand's finest moment", he says.

yeah right.:rolleyes:

I also assumed he meant "the thinner the air," but are they saying that the CT "acknowledged its excellence" or Massive Attack did? I thought the CT (Simon, at least) had said that they did *not* like this remix. BTS, any chance you could post the MP3 somewhere so the rest of us can get at it too? I've just got the one that's cut short. --Alan

[iceblink555]

Originally posted by Brett
Some people listen to music with their ears and their hearts. Others reach for the technical manual. I’m sorry but I don’t equate my listening pleasure with car mechanics.

Not aimed at you Phil as the background to your stance predates my time here. I can see your concerns. However, that piece was masturbatory at best – possibly malignant. Exactly the kind of reviewer I have no respect for. The kind of person with a £20,000 hi-fi and 6 albums, all Pink Floyd. Go away.

Right on, Brett! These kinds of reviews make me wonder, "Did they *listen* to the music, or did they turn the volume all the way down and just stare at the equalizer display?!" --Alan

[mojo]

hmm, not had a chance to look in here for a few days, but I can tell you all now, that the quote from Robin is complete and utter nonsense!!

I'm not really going to go into it here, but its quite amusing reading the review... how the Cocteaus will help 4ad's flagging label woes...

hmmmmm!!

I think the one thing that's passed the journo by in the review is that none of the Cocteaus albums have been available via 4ad in the US up until this year (it looks like the reissue date of the 3rd Jun is holding but the reviewer didn't pick up on that).

re 4ad in the US, they were distributed by Warners, apart from bands who were licensed direct. This year the Cocteaus and the Pixies revert back to 4ad, and both will have all the albums reissued around the same time. Ivo sold the label back to Beggars (who are nothing to do with Warners at all) a good three or so years ago. All 4ad releases will eventually be distributed by 4ad/Beggars Group/ADA in the US, as each deal finishes (its normally approx 10 years after the last album)

in context though, it is Pitchfork, and even when they do a good review they play it down - check the new Kristin Hersh and Throwing Muses ones :)

funny

[Phil Lawton]

Jo

Thanks for clearing that up.

So will you (4AD) or Robin be complaining to the relevant authorities about the quote in the article?

[Phil Lawton]

AND...just as an aside...has the guy who wrote the article ever really heard CT, or is he going on what his mates have told him?

Genuine quote or not, it is a particularly poisonous slice of journalism.

[mojo]

I doubt anyone will put in a complaint, I know we've not done that before...

I just wouldn't take it too seriously...

its just a pretty poor review, basically saying that Robin was the wrong person to do the remasters and 4ad are a struggling indie. Regardless of opinion on the remasters themselves, I think both main points are way off the mark - Robin was the right person for the remasters, and 4ad aren't struggling

its funny actually, I was talking with Steve in backcat about this (sent him the link) and he pointed out that in the old days of 4ad, they paid for really posh remasters to be done (by someone else), which were rejected by Robin, hence these ones eventually happening...

I wonder if Pitchfork will change the page when they realise there's a US release date.. god knows... they'll probably say its down to clever campaigning from them or something :)

[slipmaskin]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
AND...just as an aside...has the guy who wrote the article ever really heard CT, or is he going on what his mates have told him?

Genuine quote or not, it is a particularly poisonous slice of journalism.

Phil. I'm a casual lurker over at the unofficial Pitchfork-forum, and I can verify that Chris Ott - alias Totally - is quite the Cocteau Twins-fan, even if it's not particularly transparent in his remasters-diatribe.

Here's how his 'infatuation' manifests, in order of preference:

1. The Spangle Maker EP
2. Heaven Or Las Vegas
3. Treasure
4. Blue Bell Knoll
5. Four-Calendar Cafe

So yeah. He's legitimate, albeit a bit of a self-proclaimed pervasive chap, which he's immensly notorious for over at the abovementioned watering-hole. He even conducted an interview with Simon back in '96, and here's his comment on that:

"I was 20, I had like nothing prepared. I edited it together to make me look like 1000% better (though everything he says is verbatim from the tape). He held my hand through that whole interview, a total class act."

Don't ask me how I know these things, or how I manage to conserve them.

[slipmaskin]

Originally posted by by the sea


then he should have known that the finale for "victorialand" is "the thinner the air" - imo.

Yeah, that's factual wrongdoing. Probably cerebral meltdown, since he mentions the same track in similar context, just a couple of lines within striking distance. We all do those things. Should be reprimanded and adjusted, though.

Fake edit: It's already been corrected, I notice. Well golly me.