New Guthrie and Budd - badly mastered?

[Cugel]

Apologies for the obvious heresy, but does anyone who's been listening to the new Guthrie Budd albums think they sound a bit muffled?

I know it's ambient (-ish) and all, and therefore hardly going to be awash with high-hats and cymbals clashing, but they both sound like someone's stuffed a sock into the mixing desk. Especially Budd's piano parts.

I might be wrong...

BTW, I've got decent headphones, so I've ruled them out.

[Fritter]

No heresy, everyone's ears are different.

I've read criticism of RG's mastering of L2V elsewhere, but it's pretty pointless arguing about it since it is what it is and that's how the artist wanted it. A bit like saying that Picasso's Guernica would be better if it had more red in it.

Personally, with the profileration of MP3 I'm happy to have 40 minutes of less-than-piercing treble.

[Cugel]

Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful the man gets out of bed in the morning and can find the time to produce music that enhances my life, particulalry given that I wouldn't know where to begin.

And I wouldn't dream of criticising the man's vision and artistry. But is muffled sound the same as artistic vision? If it is, then it is. But if it isn't, I'd prefer a bit of clarity to the muffle filter, particularly when the work is otherwise pretty wonderful.

[Fritter]

I know what you mean - it's endlessly debatable. I can't listen to the latest Fall LP it sounds so muffled, but I'm happy to accept that if that's what Mark E. Smith wanted it to sound like then, OK.

The great pianist Glenn Gould gave up performing concerts because of the huge disparity of accoustics in concert halls - he reckoned that recording was the way to produce the 'definitive' sound, but seemingly without taking into account the huge disparity of recording and reproduction techniques. The doofus.

[Cugel]

If we're onto the Fall, then what about Live at the Witch Trials? One of my favourites but its still irks that half the album crackles and cuts out all over the place. Can't quite see how it improves the work, but then again MES has always been an awkward sod.

[Fritter]

I haven't listened to Witch Trials for years, but I listen to Bend Sinister regularly, which was apparently mastered from cassette at MES's insistence, and it sounds fine to me.

[dprid]

Apologies for the obvious heresy, but does anyone who's been listening to the new Guthrie Budd albums think they sound a bit muffled?

I know it's ambient (-ish) and all, and therefore hardly going to be awash with high-hats and cymbals clashing, but they both sound like someone's stuffed a sock into the mixing desk. Especially Budd's piano parts.

I might be wrong...

BTW, I've got decent headphones, so I've ruled them out.
Maybe that's just how they wanted it.

[Cugel]

I suppose.

Shame though, because I'd rather they wanted it the way I wanted them to want it, not, as is obviously the case, the way they wanted it. Still, beggars can't be choosers, eh?

[andylama]

I've listened numerous times, but not at high volumes, and not analytically.

[Rondel]

Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful the man gets out of bed in the morning and can find the time to produce music that enhances my life, particulalry given that I wouldn't know where to begin.

And I wouldn't dream of criticising the man's vision and artistry. But is muffled sound the same as artistic vision? If it is, then it is. But if it isn't, I'd prefer a bit of clarity to the muffle filter, particularly when the work is otherwise pretty wonderful.

One evening while listening I couldn't help but think the same thing - Muffled - It's brilliant work and a joy to listen too otherwise.

[Cugel]

Thank god it's not just me. I was on the verge of having my ears syringed.

[robin guthrie]

Sorry.
FYI, it's been recorded and mixed that way. Mastering is not an issue.
I kinda like it.

[djproject]

well said =D

[Ghosty]

ROBIN!

[moeism]

AUDIOPHILES!!!!


Nothing wrong with that, of course. I'm not as bothered by sound quality... Although I feel like I should start caring more. I just don't know where to begin. I guess training my ear???

[andylama]

Don't. Indulging too much in this academic/technical nitpickery will cause one to start listening more to the equipment that made the music, rather than the music itself. When music starts being clinical (and you're not a professional sound engineer), there's no point in listening anymore.

[Cugel]

Thanks for the reply Robin. It's good to get a definitive answer and put my doubts about the quality of my ears to bed once and for all.

I'd hardly call myself an audiophile, it's just I found myself thinking "muffled" and my first thought was that there was a problem with production...

I recently got Budd and Eno's "The Pearl" on CD for the first time and thought the same thing, but put it down to its age. Perhaps that was the kind of sound you were after.

Anyway, as I believe I have pointed out, I still think the albums are pretty wonderful. Muffled sounding is not a deal breaker for me and, now that I can put the anxiety over the production out of the way, I will no doubt come to like it.

[Clayton39]

I havent heard this yet... but I am really excited to hear that Robin is working with Manual next. Manual is amazing.

[angelhood]

Thanks for the reply Robin. It's good to get a definitive answer and put my doubts about the quality of my ears to bed once and for all.

I'd hardly call myself an audiophile, it's just I found myself thinking "muffled" and my first thought was that there was a problem with production...

I recently got Budd and Eno's "The Pearl" on CD for the first time and thought the same thing, but put it down to its age. Perhaps that was the kind of sound you were after.

Anyway, as I believe I have pointed out, I still think the albums are pretty wonderful. Muffled sounding is not a deal breaker for me and, now that I can put the anxiety over the production out of the way, I will no doubt come to like it.

Too late Cugel. I think you are off his Christmas card list. Less than 20 post in and you are ploughing in to poor old Robin. Mind you, he can probably handle himself.:D

[Cugel]

I was on his list? What have I done?!

I take it all back - they sound as clear as a bell and not at all like they were recorded about thirty feet from the microphone on a foggy day...

Anyway, now I know that's what its MEANT to sound like, I can just learn to like it, can't I?

P.S. I may not have posted much, but then I tend to wait until I've got something to say...

[andylama]

Anyway, now I know that's what its MEANT to sound like, I can just learn to like it, can't I?

That's life in Cocteauland.

"it is what it is"

[Cugel]

True.

I'm surprised I'm not used to it, having spent half the eighties and nineties seeing them live and loving either the vocals or the music but never (except perhaps once or twice) at the same time. I don't usually care and will cheerfully accept half-assed crap from other bands, but somehow their music actually MEANS something to me, and I guess that makes me a bit precious about it.

BTW, I do understand that this is my problem and no, I'm not suggesting that I can dictate to an artist about their vision, but when the stuff is out there, released, for people to hear, then they do have a right to their reactions. If people don't react, what's the point? And it aint always going to be positive (and here I speak from experience, being a novelist, and having been personally fed up to the back teeth with peoples bullshit opinions about my work. But that's the territory, if you don't want criticism, you only have to keep your work to yourself - which is something no one who produces something they think is worthwhile ever wants to do.)

[angelhood]

I was on his list? What have I done?!

I take it all back - they sound as clear as a bell and not at all like they were recorded about thirty feet from the microphone on a foggy day...

Anyway, now I know that's what its MEANT to sound like, I can just learn to like it, can't I?

P.S. I may not have posted much, but then I tend to wait until I've got something to say...

I usually post when I'm pissed and have nothing to say. Funny thing is I was going to post something about the sound quality myself. I have been listening to the CDs and the production doesn't matter now so much. Just imagine the piano playing in the next room with the door slightly ajar.

[fornasetti]

I'm still waiting for Amazon to get their shit together and send me these CDs.

[Cugel]

Cancel them if you can and order direct from Darla. It only took a three or four days.