Robins website

[encierro]

Why do I end up at californian band The Flirs homepage when typing in www.robinguthrie.com?
Where is Robins homepage?:confused:

[mmmender]

:mad:

this was done in extremely poor taste.

a band completely unrelated to robin guthrie has literally snatched up the domain name.

i, along with robin's blessing, had gathered a great group of people to work on a new site dedicated to him but now that won't be happening as the domain was stolen.

i've contacted robin about this.

[encierro]

He needs a website. What about: .org, .net or something like that?
I tried the .com link and now it doesnt work at all 666

[watchlar]

i suggest letting the band know how you feel via their guestbook

[zed]

......i'm truly appalled at this......arrogance!:mad: :mad:
but, i suppose it's just a sign of the times we live in....

"women never really faint, villians alway blink they're eyes,
children are the only ones who blush, and life is just to die...."

Z.:rolleyes:

[JohnnyV]

Originally posted by mmmender
:mad:

a band completely unrelated to robin guthrie has literally snatched up the domain name.



How does one "snatch up" a previously assigned domain name? Wasn't www.robinguthrie.com already in existence?

A :confused: Geek

[mmmender]

Originally posted by JohnnyV


How does one "snatch up" a previously assigned domain name? Wasn't www.robinguthrie.com already in existence?

A :confused: Geek

it was in existence but the domain had expired. once a domain name expires anyone can purchase it....but we obviously weren't expecting it to be bought up, especially not by a band called the flir?!! we were just trying to gather all of the bits and pieces and ideas to get the site up and running. it was going to be a great site run by several other people, i was merely going to host it and design it.

so much for that idea.

Originally posted by watchlar
i suggest letting the band know how you feel via their guestbook

i think it's a great idea watchy, maybe others will follow your lead.

[kookaburra]

Are they not members here on the board? Perhaps they'll read this thread and take the hint.

[dprid]

As it's a personal name of a recognised artist you can quite easily get the name back by complaining to the people that maintain the domain registry. A lot of artists have done this to maintain control of their names. Doesn't need lawyers or anything either - just put the case and you'll almost certainly win.

[someotherian]

Originally posted by kookaburra
Are they not members here on the board? Perhaps they'll read this thread and take the hint.
yes.. given that their homepage is listed as www.theflir.com (to which robinguthrie.com redirects), i think board member 'theFLIR' might be able to enlighten us...?

[theFLIR]

We bought this name before any other persons snatched it up... It was not in use and so therefore we are using it... All anyone ( mmmender) has to do is email us about this... and we will redirect it to wherever... were not poaching or nothing... but we bought it with the intentions of using it until the intended user needs...


its better that we bought it... then someone who has no intentions of giving it back...

also I can recommend a site that you can register domains for only $10 dollars... thats worth not having to go thru hassles like. thissss.....

we also use about 10 other band domain names also, only because the bands are not using them..

mmmender You can email me to discuss this further if you want... there should be no problem about this...

sal

[mmmender]

Originally posted by theFLIR
We bought this name before any other persons snatched it up... It was not in use and so therefore we are using it... All anyone ( mmmender) has to do is email us about this

mmmender You can email me to discuss this further if you want... there should be no problem about this...



sal, we had the domain name registered and the url was in operation until february i think but it then expired and was purchased by yourself. i did email you about this earlier today, maybe you didn't get the message? anway, thanks very much for offering to get the domain back to robin. please contact me via email to sort out the details.

leesa@cocteautwins.org

[someotherian]

Originally posted by theFLIR
We bought this name before any other persons snatched it up... It was not in use and so therefore we are using it... All anyone ( mmmender) has to do is email us about this... and we will redirect it to wherever... were not poaching or nothing... but we bought it with the intentions of using it until the intended user needs...
but what use would you have for a site like www.robinguthrie.com???

[Lucibelle]

Originally posted by theFLIR

its better that we bought it... then someone who has no intentions of giving it back...

we also use about 10 other band domain names also, only because the bands are not using them..



I'll agree that I'm happy to hear that you're willing to work this out, but using all these other band's domain names... I'm sorry, but I think that stinks. I don't know who else's names you're using, but Robin has certainly paid his dues to make his name known. I just don't think it's right to use such names just to get you more traffic. There are other, more respectable ways.

[ezzydynamine]

i don't wish to tread on any toes, so don't bombard me with hate mail as usual!!!



I don't think it's fair to say that.... people can purchase whatever they want on the internet.... www.robinguthrie.com is not destined to belong to robin guthrie or some fans doing his site.... if someone registers that name fair and square don't start hassling them.... ask them if they could maybe help and re-sell it or terminate their lease... jesus... look theFlir have said they will co-operate... now wasn't that hard... all that shouting for nothing.. come on kids..


if i ever terminated ct.uk for some reason... and someone else bought it, yeah i would be devastated... since i use it for email, and it's been an ongoing project for a few years... but then that's the way it would go. i couldn't do anything but beg them to re-sell to me back again, and if they said no then i could do nothing... but remember for domain that sat pointing at a page for 2 years and no where else, i don't think theFlir thought anyone would care, it was up for sale, and they bought it.....

[Lucibelle]

Yes erinn, this is true, but I still don't agree with it. They are using an established name to direct traffic to their own site. I just feel like it's taking advantage of another artist's work. And we're not talking about a domain name that's been unused for a year or even half a year. Only a couple of months, if that many. The name expired in February. It's only the beginning of April and I don't know exactly when the name was bought. He says that they 'bought it with the intention of using it until the intended user needs'. Why? I can think of only 2 reasons: 1) to use said name to redirect traffic to a lesser known site. 2) to sell said name back to the user at a profit. If I'm missing another reason, I'd be curious as to what it is. Are those reasons wrong? Legally, I don't think so. Morally? Who's to say. Do I agree with it? No. Will that make a difference? I doubt it.

I do agree that it was in poor taste, which explains why it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I am all for supporting fellow musicians in their effort to put their name out there, but I feel it's wrong to use another artist's already established name, unless or course you have their permission. Mmmender had Robin's permission. His blessing, actually! Much planning and hard work almost went to waste. And again, I am happy that Sal is good enough to work this out. Thank you.

So what's the moral of this story? What's the lesson? Mmmender knows. ;)

"Never, EVER, let your domain name expire!!!"

[encierro]

... all that shouting for nothing..
I say it is shouting for something. As long as this leads to Robins website getting up and running its worth it.

[someotherian]

Originally posted by erinn
i don't wish to tread on any toes, so don't bombard me with hate mail as usual!!!

I don't think it's fair to say that.... people can purchase whatever they want on the internet.... www.robinguthrie.com is not destined to belong to robin guthrie or some fans doing his site.... if someone registers that name fair and square don't start hassling them.... ask them if they could maybe help and re-sell it or terminate their lease... jesus... look theFlir have said they will co-operate... now wasn't that hard... all that shouting for nothing.. come on kids..

if i ever terminated ct.uk for some reason... and someone else bought it, yeah i would be devastated... since i use it for email, and it's been an ongoing project for a few years... but then that's the way it would go. i couldn't do anything but beg them to re-sell to me back again, and if they said no then i could do nothing... but remember for domain that sat pointing at a page for 2 years and no where else, i don't think theFlir thought anyone would care, it was up for sale, and they bought it.....
erinn, i'm not gonna bombard you with hate mail but i am gonna take issue with you over your post..

firstly, yes you're right, anyone should technically have the right to register any domain name they want, but don't you think it's morally right (or just plain good manners) to let someone called robin guthrie have first dibs on a site called www.robinguthrie.com?!

secondly, your point about ct.uk is not relevant, since your name is erinn, not 'cocteautwins.uk'. devastated you may be if someone else took that site name, but i have to say that you'd get less support for getting the name back than someone like robin.. or indeed anyone else in a simliar situation.

yes, life on the net is as democratic (ha!) as elsewhere, but there is still the question of netiquette.. or just plain good nature!

[mmmender]

first of all who said anything about shouting? i'm certainly not shouting.

secondly, i think it's misleading to send people to a website about the flir when you intend on getting some robinguthrie.com

thirdly, i did not let the domain name expire. brian (who own the server that this site resides on) purchased the rg.com domain many years ago in the hopes of creating a site himself. he never got around to it and offered the domain to me. rather than just slap something together i asked people on this board if they'd be interested in doing the site. i thought it would be great to have a site that focused not just on more of the same (fuck knows we have enough duplicate cocteau twins sites online as it is!). i thought that offering a site dedicated to robin's sounds and how he made them would be a great idea. many people offered loads of advice and technical information and many more offered their services as regular contributors. i also contacted robin and he did indeed offering his full blessing behind the project and agreed to contribute information,etc. i wasn't going to be running this site, as i mentioned earlier i run enough sites as it is and thought this subject would be best held in the hands of someone much more technically inclined than myself. i was simply going to design and host. i even had someone offer to do guitar workshops.

all the ideas were building for a great site when the domain expired, brian was supposed to renew the site but obviously let it slip his mind and it was bought up by someone else.

to make a long story short, i think it's a very kind gesture that the flir have offered to transfer the domain back to rg fans so that surfers will get what they seek.

btw, leesabeales.com is about to expire, any takers? ;)

[Lucibelle]

So did you and Sal work it out then?

I'll check back in the morning. It's late and I need to sleep!

[mmmender]

i'm still waiting for sal to contact me via email about the transfer.

[iceblink555]

Originally posted by erinn
if i ever terminated ct.uk for some reason... and someone else bought it, yeah i would be devastated... since i use it for email, and it's been an ongoing project for a few years... but then that's the way it would go. i couldn't do anything but beg them to re-sell to me back again, and if they said no then i could do nothing...


Actually, I think some other people in this situation have taken legal action in recent years and won. I believe Madonna was one of them. I don't necessarily agree with those rulings--I'm a bit of a free-marketer myself. But I can see the point that an established artist/performer should expect to have some control over the use of their name/image. --Alan

[kookaburra]

The real issue here is not of legality, but of ethics.

[Maria Jose]

Speaking of Robin , . . .
Just for those of you who didn' t read the Guardian' s Review on
Imperial .

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/fridayreview/story/0,12102,918548,00.html

[watchlar]

Originally posted by Maria Jose
Speaking of Robin , . . .
Just for those of you who didn' t read the Guardian' s Review on
Imperial .

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/fridayreview/story/0,12102,918548,00.html


THANKS FOR THE LINK!!!!

[mattadore]

I'll second that, and add that it's nice to see the release garnering some positive press in the UK. Unfortunately, it seems to have barely registered on most peoples' radar on this side of the pond. :rolleyes:

[kookaburra]

Originally posted by Mo Safder
Everyone here knows that it hadn't really been used so might as well buy it before someone else does, right?

No.

[Lucibelle]

This does not explain the other 10 band names that you are using... By the way, did you guys even bother to check on the legalities before carrying out your brilliant idea? :rolleyes: Those who have been here for a while might have figured that I would. pimp


This is what dprid was talking about. This is what got Madonna her domain name. What? You mean Madonna didn't just buy it with lots of money? No. Before this act, there was a very sleazy cybersquatter who used the legitimate excuse for madonna.com to be used for a hospital. Today, madonna.com takes you exactly to where you'd expect...NOT a hospital! If you read it carefully, you will see that it clearly supports, on many points, Robin having his name represented in a way of HIS choosing. And guess what? He doesn't even have to BE a celebrity!!

So moral, ethical, considerate, nice...whatever! Here's what the law has to say on this matter...


"The Anticybersquatting Act was enacted by Congress specifically to address the practice of snapping up famous marks or names as Internet domain names. The legislative history of the Anticybersquatting Act reveals that it was created with the awareness that sophisticated cybersquatters take precautions to avoid liability such as to circumvent offering the domain name for sale in a manner which violates current law. Therefore, under the Anticybersquatting Act, mere bad faith registration of the domain name is sufficient. The Anticybersquatting Act provides that the bad faith registration, trafficking or use of a domain name violates federal law. The action is much simpler than one for trademark infringement, however, because fewer elements need be proven, and thus it is likely to be a relatively quick proceeding (compared to a full-blown infringement or dilution action).

The statute is even retroactive - applying to domain names registered before the law was enacted. And violations occurring after the effective date of the statute are punishable by remedies including statutory damages up to $100,000 per domain name. A new decision handed down in February 2000 by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit in New York explicitly holds that the Anticybersquatting Act applies retroactively to names registered before the new statute was effective, and notes that the injunctive relief may be supplemented with damages obtained under other existing law, such as the federal dilution statute.

The Anticybersquatting Act generally applies to domain names identical or confusingly similar to marks that were distinctive or famous when the domain name was registered, and includes personal names. The marks covered by the statute need not be federally registered (i.e., a protectible right can be established by showing use), and include celebrities' names. In order to prevail under the Anticybersquatting Act, the rightful owner must prove bad faith intent on the part of the cybersquatter by factors including: the fame or distinctiveness of the mark involved; whether the cybersquatter has trademark or other intellectual property rights to the name (for instance, whether the name is his or her legal name or nickname); the cybersquatter's prior legitimate use of the name versus an intention to divert consumers to another web site which could harm the trademark owner's goodwill; the cybersquatter's offer to sell the mark for financial gain; provision of false contact information; and patterns concerning these factors, particularly the registration and sale of multiple famous domain names.

The combination of these two new remedies gives companies effective weapons to reclaim their right to use their own trademarks as ".com" destinations without having to pay the blackmail that has often been demanded by opportunistic players who snapped up the name first."


Keep in mind that mmmender has Robin's PERMISSION to use his name. Mmmender, I would contact Robin ASAP on this if you haven't done so already! All he needs to do is send them a Cease and Desist letter. I bookmarked this info for you, sweetie! Robin Guthrie's name has been known for quite some time. His recent solo PRODUCT pretty much solidifies his rights in this case, not to mention his works and sales here in the US, which is also where the Flir and mmmender's server (and owner) reside. Whether or not they ever intended to sell the domain for profit is irrelevant. These guys are clearly misrepresenting his name! The Flir also sell their CDs under Robin's name. This, my friends, is what can get you in SERIOUS trouble. Bad no-no! Their admission to purchasing several other band names doesn't look good for them, either! I know Sal *said* he'd cooporate, but if he doesn't contact you soon, I'll make sure you're pointed in the right direction! Anything for the Cocteau Twins, their members, and our lovely webmistress! kiss1


Had the Flir made robinguthrie.com into an official fan site, or had the name been sold to another Robin Guthrie, they might have had a case. However, they are intentionally diverting people to the Flir's own site, selling the Flir's merchandise, which has nothing, I repeat, NOTHING to do with Robin Guthrie. They can claim that they 'intended' to make it a fan site all they want, but the fact is it now leads to the Flir. I've also looked at cases that were lost, and in all of those cases, they were lost because the owner was NOT misrepresenting the name. (kind of like how mmmender was using it, and had permission from Robin to use it, no?) Clearly not the case here, however. The Flir COULD try to fight this, but the question is do they really want to take such a chance when so much is clearly against them? A federal law costing up to $100,000 per domain name?? OUCH!!!

Oh, I've taken the liberty of taking a screen shot of robinguthrie.com (mis)leading us to the flir's homepage, as well as your audio page which sells the Flir merchandise under Robin Guthrie's name. Just in case you had any plans of changing things around to avoid responsabilities, but I think even better would be screen shots of search engine results (with dates, of course) showing how robinguthrie.com really takes us to the flir's homepage. You don't mind, do you? Nah, you wouldn't mind.... But of course, all of that's registered. Your own admissions submitted by you on these boards, coming from your own IP addresses and/or ISP is also evidence to the cause.


Sorry to be an ass about this guys, but mmmender's been waiting to hear from Sal, who said he'd contact her to work it out. He didn't come through for her, so I did.:D


You may want to reconsider your recent domain name purchases, friends.


roflmao

[iceblink555]

Originally posted by kookaburra
The real issue here is not of legality, but of ethics.

I disagree, Kookaburra. Both are important here. We can talk about it being unethical until we're blue in the face, but it's the (potential) illegality that could *force* these guys to give the domain name back to Robin. --Alan

[mojo]

there's one thing here that puzzles me - I was led to believe that if a domain name isn't re-registered once it expires, there's still a two-year grace period, so that someone can't do what is being done here...

Its worth checking into whether the original people who sold the domain have this in their terms and conditions - but it sounds like there's something a little dodgy going on, if the domain could be bought outright as it was, so soon after it expired.

[mmmender]

btw........message to those flir boys, i'm still waiting to hear from you about this. can you please contact me asap via email to sort out the transfer of this domain name?

leesa@cocteautwins.org

[mborum]

Gosh, you guys.

Everyone should just relax a little bit. If Sal (of The Flir) is genuinely willing to repoint or transfer the domain name to Leesa's server, then no harm has been done, right? I can see that they haven't yet contacted Leesa (at least as of her most recent post on this thread), but can't we give him the benefit of the doubt 'til then?

If I'm not mistaken, The Flir are Cocteau Twins enthusiasts themselves, so I think it remains to be seen whether there was any malicious intent going on. Granted, it is typically SMARTER to have at least a landing page for any domain name you own so that people who go there understand what's going on. It's obviously confusing if the domain simply drops you into some other band's Web site.

HOWEVER, like I said, if he's sincere about transferring it, then what's the big deal? He said he bought the domain name so that nobody else would--and maybe that "somebody else" might not have any good intentions other than to charge Robin or Leesa or whoever thousands of dollars for the domain name (which IS illegal in this particular situation), but it doesn't look as though that's what's going on...YET. If they never follow-up, then the legal process is pretty straightforward unless he plans to build a Robin Guthrie fan site himself. Even then, it's up to Robin, really, who should own the domain name.

The moral of the story, though, is to renew your domain name when it comes up for renewal. According to the Network Solutions WHOIS database, robinguthrie.com was registered to Sal Giuliano on February 17 via a domain name wholesale reseller called 10-Domains.com. I know from experience that such operations are notoriously "dodgy," as Jo put it, and it can sometimes take weeks to get things sorted out once they have the domain in their database.

Having dealt with something like this recently, I would recommend having the robinguthrie.com domain transferred into Robin's or Bella Union's name, etc. and managed through Network Solutions. You will need to have them convert it to a "retail account," so they can retake control of the domain billing from 10-Domains.com, otherwise, you'll still have problems getting it to point to the right server and you might not get the renewal notices on time (if ever).

Michael

[Mo Safder]

This point is now moot. I'm having the domain point to robin's page on bella union. Check it out http://www.RobinGuthrie.com/

[mmmender]

luci, why did you close and archive this thread?????? :confused:

all threads stay active for 25 days then get automatically archived.

[Lucibelle]

I sent you an email explaining why I closed it.

[mmmender]

Originally posted by Lucibelle
I sent you an email explaining why I closed it.

hmm i never got it.........oh wait, you probably sent it to my webmaster@cocteautwins.org account......checking now

EDIT: nope, no email at either account luci, please send me a PM

[Lucibelle]

I sent it to leesa@cocteautwins.org Is that address valid? :confused: