same sonic territory

[iceblink555]

Inspired by one of FredofLA's recent posts...

Who would you say shares the same or similar "sonic territory" as the CT? New bands or old--both are fair game.

Fred mentioned Donna Regina. I'll suggest Julee Cruise and Xmal Deutschland (reminds me a lot of Garlands-era CT). Bel Canto is another usual suspect...

[mmmender]

they're incomparable really.

but if i bend the rules bigtime......i'd say the only bands who even come close to their territory are: slowdive, bowery electric and sigur ros.

[mattadore]

Originally posted by mmmender
they're incomparable really.

but if i bend the rules bigtime......i'd say the only bands who even come close to their territory are: slowdive, bowery electric and sigur ros.

I'll certainly second our hostess with the mostest's sentiment RE: Sigur Ros. The first time I heard track 4 from "( )", I had to check and make sure it wasn't a lost outtake from "Treasure".

[fredofla]

i would agree that Slowdive used a similar guitar/band structure as CT, and yet (much like Sigur Ros) they could never match the diversity of song variations and especially the overlay of counter-melodies that were the products of Liz Fraser, i suppose.

Slowdive and Sigur Ros (as wonderful as they are) still come off as one dimensional songwriters compared to the distinguished content on the later CT albums.

i think Donna Regina ranks right up there with Bel Canto when it comes to addressing a lot of the same creative issues as the Cocteaus. And Kohann, as well. Halou, too (though they still have miles to go in terms of fleshing out fully-formed songs.)

and Mandalay.....you bet! (oh how i'm gonna miss Mandalay!)

is anyone else here familiar a Scandinavian band called Velvet Belly? they're interesting.

what about Splashdown?

if course, all of the bands that i put on my list have female vocalists.......for me that's a priority because the Liz Fraser vocal style was such a huge part of the essential CT spirit and style.

for this reason, i really can't think of a band with a male vocalist to put in their league, to tell you the truth......although, admittedly, Thom Yorke gives it a good shot.

[watchlar]

i love Splashdown....and velvet belly
There was also a local San Francisco band called Action Plus that had a few tracks that were mesmerizing...

but i agree with leesa...this is an impossible question to answer

[Phil Lawton]

but i agree with leesa...this is an impossible question to answer

Not as impossible as "How do they get Teflon to stick to the pans?"

Or "If you're driving a car at the speed of light and you turn on the headlights, what happens?"

And other old music hall jokes.

Forgive me, Watchy....I typed these in a moment of weakness.

[watchlar]

roflmao

[fredofla]

Originally posted by watchlar

but i agree with leesa...this is an impossible question to answer


strange......i don't find it impossible at all.

but then, maybe i'm not as invested in the Cocteaus as many here are.

for me, they were only a starting point to the discovery of a whole new branch of pop music.

i can easily think of albums that have given me the same kind of rush and initial thrill as when i first heard Victorialand:

The Broadway Project "Compassion"
Bjork's "Homogenic" and "Vespertine"
Stina Nordenstam's "Memories Of A Color"
Bows "Blush" and "Cassidy"
Mandalay "Instinct"
Splashdown "Stars And Garters"
Mahogany "The Dream Of A Modern Day"
Single Gun Theory "Flow, River Of My Soul"
Anje Garbarek "Smiling And Waving"
Auburn Lull "Alone I Admire"
Donna Regina "Her Beautiful Heart"
MUM "Finally We Are No One"

....and, most recently, the two exquisite albums by the new Danish band called Under Byen (which are probably more closely related to late Bjork or Stina than the CT.)

yeah, there's still lot's to get excited about.

sure, i will always wish CT were still making music, but i simply
refuse to live only in the past.


ballerina

[watchlar]

oooooo single gun theory....stellar!
I love them so much and am so sad they are not currently working together. The last thing they did was THE MONKEY'S MASK soundtrack...which was ok, but i'm longing for more

but you're right FRED...speaking for myself....i have so much invested in CT....it's the only music that speaks to my soul that way...and have never found anything as thrilling! :)

[Brett]

Nobody else is in Liz's sphere, that's the trouble. (or not, as the case may be) I mean Kate Bush and Bjork share some of the personality to ability alignments IMHO but.....

As for the guitars I don't like to make comparisons when they become competitive and devalue either the main artist (CT's) or the artist being compared. However, if you love Simon and Robin I'd suggest you might enjoy these:

Sigur Ros
The Chameleons
Slowdive
House of Love
Kitchens of Distinction
My Bloody Valentine
Mogwai
The Blue Nile

[Brett]

You know I've heard less than half of Fred's list!!! :(

[Brett]

Originally posted by mmmender
they're incomparable really.

but if i bend the rules bigtime......i'd say the only bands who even come close to their territory are: slowdive, bowery electric and sigur ros.

Bowery Electric? Are they like the name suggests - e-bows? Mmmm

Are you able to expand Lees?

(Cue gag)

[watchlar]

Fred's a pretty eclectic guy ;)

something for you to investigate Brett ! :)
I like your list as well Brett...some great stuff on there

[Phil Lawton]

Brett

If you're going to listen to any single one, make it Mandalay's "Instinct".

Wonderful.

[Brett]

Originally posted by watchlar
Fred's a pretty eclectic guy ;)
something for you to investigate Brett ! :)


I don't know if Fred would enjoy being investigated by me!:666: Oh, his shortlist! Yes! Soz :blush:

Philipo,
I might just do that.

The Road to Mandalay, eh! Thanks. I need a purchase. I'm getting twitchy.

[zed]

.......as the saying goes,......"there can be only one."

cocteau twins are one of those incredible anomalies the universe sometimes lets happen.

never before, and never again.

Z.

[fredofla]

Originally posted by watchlar
Fred's a pretty eclectic guy ;)

something for you to investigate Brett ! :)
I like your list as well Brett...some great stuff on there


....geez, my taste is more often called esoteric or obsessive than eclectic, but thanks, Watchy.

.....and Brett's list reminds me to add to my list the still amazing MBV "Loveless" which is just SOOOOOO CT influenced.

i should also add that a lot of Curve can still give me a good share goosebumps.

and the most recent Cranes album was a total blissfest; perfect!

and, of course, anyone who missed out on Locust "Morning Light" or Scala "Beauty Nowhere" in the late '90's owes it to themselves to have a listen; in fact, i'd say these two plus Loveless, Homogenic, and Milk And Kisses are the top five albums of the last decade.

i should confess now that i rank Mark Clifford, Mark Van Hoen, Kevin Shields, Bjork and Robin Guthrie as the great music masters of 1990's.

as you can tell, i'm lovin this thread......i'm quite passionate about new music.

it gets me through the night.

[dprid]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton


Not as impossible as "How do they get Teflon to stick to the pans?"

Or "If you're driving a car at the speed of light and you turn on the headlights, what happens?"

And other old music hall jokes.

Forgive me, Watchy....I typed these in a moment of weakness.


And my personal favourite:

"If a man in a forest says something and his wife isn't there to hear it, is he still wrong?"

[etc etc]

Of course!!!!!!!!!!

[iceblink555]

Originally posted by zed
.......as the saying goes,......"there can be only one."
Z.

I am Robin Guthrie of the clan Cocteau ;-)

[zed]

........ice, baby,.....:clap: roflmao :clap:


Z.ballerina

[Iwan]

Originally posted by FREDofLA
and, of course, anyone who missed out on Locust "Morning Light" or Scala "Beauty Nowhere" in the late '90's owes it to themselves to have a listen; in fact, i'd say these two plus Loveless, Homogenic, and Milk And Kisses are the top five albums of the last decade.

i should confess now that i rank Mark Clifford, Mark Van Hoen, Kevin Shields, Bjork and Robin Guthrie as the great music masters of 1990's.


Funny how Scala is Seefeel WITHOUT Mark Clifford ;)

Yeah... all good albums, even though I wouldn't rank Milk And Kisses, Morning Light (to boring at times) or Beauty Nowhere (I like To You In Alpha & Compass Heart better) in the top 5. I would put Seefeel's Quique in there though.

Some other good efforts:
Dreamscape (only have one EP, but it's dreampop allright)
Geneva (combine Radiohead with the Twins and you get this... maybe??)
Half String
Earwig / Insides
Lamb
Seely

Plenty of groups that are worthwile checking out... and like everybody else on this board I have heard of HALF of the groups Fred mentions... I should start writing these names down, so I can check them out later :D Thanks Fred!!

[iceblink555]

Originally posted by zed
........ice, baby,.....:clap: roflmao :clap:


Z.ballerina

Thought you'd like that one, Z :)

BTW, when are you gonna get up here to Montreal?! The weather's been great, the flowers are in bloom...

[zed]

..............when can i get up there!!!!!???

HEY-SUSE MARIMBA!!! take time off??
what? and spoil a world record!?..............*wimper*

somebody make it stop!

Z.ballerina

[fredofla]

Originally posted by Iwan


Funny how Scala is Seefeel WITHOUT Mark Clifford ;)



....yeah, ain't it though.

i'd actually love to know why this was someday; both Marks are formidable talents.


Originally posted by Iwan


Yeah... all good albums, even though I wouldn't rank Milk And Kisses, Morning Light (to boring at times) or Beauty Nowhere (I like To You In Alpha & Compass Heart better) in the top 5. I would put Seefeel's Quique in there though.



i'd agree that Locust "Morning Light" is uneven, and yet when you consider the year of its release it was still extraordinary and visionary; have you heard the most recent Locust album, "Wrong"? glorious stuff here......and very tight, not an ounce of fat on it (esp when compared to the lengthy "Morning Light."

re: Scala.

choosing a fave from the Scala catalog is always a toss-up for me; undoubtedly the second half of "To You In Alpha" is one of the finest series of songs in all of electro-dreampop (as well as the EP "Lips & Heaven" which rather sounds like a CT name, doesn't it.....) and yet, Beauty Nowhere was the first one, and seemed quite radical in its day compared to the cool minimal austerity of so much of the early glitch/idm that was also sprouting around it at that time; so that's why i give it the nod.


Originally posted by Iwan

Some other good efforts:
Dreamscape (only have one EP, but it's dreampop allright)
Geneva (combine Radiohead with the Twins and you get this... maybe??)
Half String
Earwig / Insides
Lamb
Seely

Plenty of groups that are worthwile checking out... and like everybody else on this board I have heard of HALF of the groups Fred mentions... I should start writing these names down, so I can check them out later :D Thanks Fred!!


my pleasure, Iwan.

of the titles you mention above, i'd like to add that i think Insides "Euphoria" is one of the sexiest and most erotic albums of all time.....take note: the new band called Via Tania seems to pick up where Insides leaves off......even to the point that the fem vocalist's mannerisms seem nearly interchangeable.

Half String and Seely always made me feel kinda drowsy....and seemed more rooted in indie territory.....never any goosebumps, sadly.

but Lamb! yes, Lamb has had (deservedly) an exceptional career; Miss Louise Rhodes can just growl at me any ole day, i adore her voice; "Fear Of Fours" was the most scattershot of the bunch (except for the brilliant song "All In Your Hands" and alone worth the price of the album,) and then there's the recent "What Sound" which is consistent and strong from start to finish.


:blush:

[E-Lo]

An obvious choice I think is RG-era Lush, in fact one of the B-sides during this time, "Astronaut" would fit very comfortably on the Victorialand track listing.

I tried giving Seefeel and Scala a shot, but found Seefeel horribly boring and soul-less, and Scala very over-rated (like about 6 songs in total from their output) . . . so I guess CT are in a league of their own for me :)

[ScottL]

As much as I like CT, I am not so interested in idolatry in the sense that no one can reach their height, but seeing as the landscape is far from linear or even discernable, I don't see anything like them more so because I can't find any satisfactory definition of sonic territory. I mean, similar based on certain criteria...sure, and many here named may fit that bill well enough and I have nothing more to add to that list, but aside from that it doesn't come close to characterizing what I REALLY LOVE about CT....different musicians which I really do like alot are not so due to any overt similarity....I guess the things I like are usually(with certain exceptions) so because they are not like anything I'd heard before.

[fredofla]

Originally posted by E-Lo
An obvious choice I think is RG-era Lush, in fact one of the B-sides during this time, "Astronaut" would fit very comfortably on the Victorialand track listing.

I tried giving Seefeel and Scala a shot, but found Seefeel horribly boring and soul-less, and Scala very over-rated (like about 6 songs in total from their output) . . . so I guess CT are in a league of their own for me :)


i agree......Guthrie-era Lush is sublime. why they would choose to abandon the great gift he gave to them is beyond me.....but when they did, it was all downhill for Lush.

yeah, sometimes Seefeel tries my patience, too......there are moments when it seems more innately connected to the classical minimalism a la Philip Glass when it sheds all of the expected pop-song structures......and i don't know if this was always successful.

but when it comes to Scala.....well, i'm still in awe of the trippy sonic spaces Van Hoen creates with early samplers, not to mention the mostly front and center Sarah Peacock vocals (which were more often than not wasted in the Seefeel experimental soundscapes.)

yes, CT will always be in a league of their own; but the history of this particular genre of music remains still very young and vital even if it is still doomed to flourish mostly underground.

but, i will never ONLY listen to CT music;

or, for that matter, worship at but ONE lone shrine of sonic invention.

i'd much rather move on and be a part of this delicious harvest and discovery of their rich and promising influence.


:blush:

[Brett]

I never liked Lush. :(
Sorry Robin.

[watchlar]

FRED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WAS JUST AT http://www.stinaonline.com/

listening to some of her tracks on her "ferris wheel of music" on her site...

how have i missed this woman :(

thank you fred!

[watchlar]

I'M IN LOVE WITH STINA FRED....and these are HORRIBLE quality clips on her site..i can't wait to hear it on cd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mattadore]

Some Windy & Carl reminds me a bit of The Cocteau Twins, especially "The Moon And The Melodies"... I was just listening to their song "Consciousness" this morning... you can download it for free from epitonic.com by going here (http://www.epitonic.com/artists/windycarl.html).

[fredofla]

Originally posted by watchlar
FRED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WAS JUST AT http://www.stinaonline.com/

listening to some of her tracks on her "ferris wheel of music" on her site...

how have i missed this woman :(

thank you fred!

you're welcome, Watchy.

Stina's vocals even now still gives me the goosebumps, yah.

i rank her right up there with Liz Fraser and Ali (Cranes) Shaw as a personal favorite.

somehow Stina (even with all of her unique talent) manages stay just below the radar scope of even the usual "alternative" underground.....she's reknowned for her shyness, and she has cancelled many a live performance; she's also had some problems holding onto record labels.

she is hugely mysterious and charismatic.

i still hold that her song interpretation and phrasing is in many ways as radical as Frank Sinatra's back in the 1940's.

if you listen to her album of covers called "People Are Strange" you will understand right away why i make this claim.....she takes well known songs and completely renders them uncompromisingly to fit her own frail, and tender voice.

ah, yes....this website promotes her last album "This is...." which is probably her most electronic album; each one she's made has its own special flavor.

you are in for a treat, my friend.

welcome to Stinaville.

:blush:

[fredofla]

Originally posted by watchlar
I'M IN LOVE WITH STINA FRED....and these are HORRIBLE quality clips on her site..i can't wait to hear it on cd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


....let me know when you're going to be in my neck of the woods, and i'll gladly share with you her entire catalog.

i'm always good for a Stina-fest.


:1pimp:

[watchlar]

will do!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

[undertow]

I was just listening to Dubstar the other day and was thinking how heavily CT influenced "Just a girl she said" is. Granted, Dubstar is a much poppier band than CT but if you stripped away the vocals, I think that track could fool a lot of Cocteau Twins fans into believing they were hearing an unreleased instrumental.

Someone I've just recently been amazed by is Emiliana Torrini. A friend found her "Love In Time Of Science" CD for 99 cents so he bought an extra for me. Her music doesn't necessarily sound like Cocteau Twins (more like Bjork if I had to compare) but I would say her music is in the same sonic territory.

[etc etc]

Fred,
I'm being lazy here since I don't feel like going back to find the info in previous posts.....I loved Nina on Vangelis song "tell it to the mountoains/go tell the mount.?"...Where would I be best served being a lover of that track and a huge CT fan...what would be my best first purchase in Stina world?

[fredofla]

Originally posted by etc etc
Fred,
I'm being lazy here since I don't feel like going back to find the info in previous posts.....I loved Nina on Vangelis song "tell it to the mountoains/go tell the mount.?"...Where would I be best served being a lover of that track and a huge CT fan...what would be my best first purchase in Stina world?


my own point of entry into Stina Nordenstam was with "And She Closed Her Eyes" which is closest to slowcore in flavor.

from there i got into "Dynamite" (which uses lots of raspy guitars and thus has an alternative rock attitude) and then "Memories Of A Color" (her debut, which has a stark jazz flair to it.)

as i mentioned before, her more electronic albums are the last one, "This Is....." and also a soundtrack EP called "The Photographer's Wife."

imo, her most radical album is her covers disc titled "People Are Strange" where she dissects and reinterprets a nice array mostly rock oriented standards.

but any of Stina's albums have rich individual rewards....it's hard to go wrong with any of them.

.....it's that haunting voice, for sure.

[etc etc]

Fred,
Thanks, I will be following up on Stina....I recall hearing "tell it to the mountains" on a radio program where the dj did a 20+ minute remix of it, but I just sat there in my driveway waiting to find out who it was....It was the closest magic I had to the Liz thing since they split....delicate and haunting....is the Jazz tinged disc closest in sound to Vangelis or is the first one you mentioned 'closed eyes..."?

[fredofla]

Originally posted by etc etc
Fred,
Thanks, I will be following up on Stina....I recall hearing "tell it to the mountains" on a radio program where the dj did a 20+ minute remix of it, but I just sat there in my driveway waiting to find out who it was....It was the closest magic I had to the Liz thing since they split....delicate and haunting....is the Jazz tinged disc closest in sound to Vangelis or is the first one you mentioned 'closed eyes..."?


your're welcome!

i know exactly what you mean when you say "the closest magic" to Liz.

;)


really, the peice with Vangelis is entirely in a league of its own (probably because Vangelis is himself so masterful in this case.)

but it would seem to have more in common with her electronic albums, i would guess.

my own personal favorites are "Memories Of A Color" and "The Photographer's Wife" (which is getting harder and harder to find nowadays, unfortunately.)

[etc etc]

Fred,
Thanks for clarification.....I will be searching!

[dprid]

Dubstar - yup, a fine fine band, pity they didn't do more. I've always loved bands with girlie singers. Probably started with Abba, the baton carried on with a crush on Clare Grogan from Altered Images, Delta 5, Girls At Our Best, The Chefs (whatever happened to Helen McCookerybook??) and many many more through to people like Karen Matheson and others who I'm too tired to remember at the moment. Anybody else noticed just how many brilliant singers there are that get classed as folk music?
CT will always be the ultimate though - I simply cannot see for me anybody topping Liz (except maybe Liz herself should she ever exercise the tonsils again in a meaningful manner).


np Afrocelts - Seed (buy it now or forever live a duller life!)

[fredofla]

Originally posted by dprid

CT will always be the ultimate though - I simply cannot see for me anybody topping Liz (except maybe Liz herself




yep, i agree.

CT will remain the ultimate; that's a given.

artists of that high calibre happen but once or twice a generation, usually.....if we're lucky.

[iceblink555]

Thanks for the recommendations, Fred!

I particularly like some of the Donna Regina and Stina Nordenstam I've listened to. Stina's This is SN has some really beautiful vocals, but many of the songs don't seem to really showcase her talent! I'm thinking of songs like Trainsurfing, in which she starts to really break loose a minute or so into the song, but then goes back to the more mundane chorus. I wanna scream, cuz her wonderful vocal talent seems to be reigned in by the constrictions of the song structure.

Also liked People Are Strange. I really like re-worked covers. Do you like Cat Power's cover of Satisfaction?

Still need to track down Memories of a Color.... --Alan

np: Siamese Twins - The Cure (Play for Radio)

[mmmender]

Originally posted by iceblink555
Also liked People Are Strange. I really like re-worked covers. Do you like Cat Power's cover of Satisfaction?


alan, you and i must be on the same wave length tonight. i just started a thread about cat power!

[stratton]

I think The Sundays moved into the sonic territory of the CT with their sophomore release 'Blind'. Bel Canto did it for me with 'Shimmering, Warm and Bright'. I think Bjork and the Sugarcubes were hitting on it back in the '80's when 'Birthday' was released. The Waterlillies went there with the single 'Sunshine Like You'. Single Gun Theory have always been a big favorite of mine too. I think there was a lot of similar sonic and emotional content ground covered with 'Like Stars in my Hands' as well as 'Flow, River of my Soul'.

I have been listening to 'Heaven or Las Vegas' a lot lately and it has really begun to stand out for me as the height of the band's pop sensibilities. While I think they eclipsed some of the moments on HOLV with production values on 4CC, I feel like HOLV was a more cohesive visionary whole. The songs all flow together like one and the entire vocal effort by Liz is just one long undulating lullabye.

stratton

[iceblink555]

Originally posted by mmmender


alan, you and i must be on the same wave length tonight. i just started a thread about cat power!

Damn, has our synchronicity started up again?! So.... what was the last CT song you listened to? And, uhhh, what did you have for breakfast this morning? ;-)

--Alan