The Failed Cocteau Resurrection & The Near Death of Bella Union

[ForADay]

Multi-faceted story from Billboard, featuring Simon about the 8th paragraph down:

http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/content_display/industry/e3ied2621cfc5e7c4cc86b4db181e80ac85

Earlier in the day Simon Raymonde, founder and managing director of London-based indie Bella Union and former member of cult U.K. alt-rock band Cocteau Twins, revealed further details on how close the band had been to reforming two years ago, following an offer from its old American booking agent.

"We agreed to meet in Bristol where [singer] Elizabeth [Fraser] lives and we all went up there and kind of agreed a template of how we could all possibly work together," he said. "Weirdly enough, by the end of the conversation everybody said: 'Yeah, we'll do it."

Raymonde went onto to reveal that the reunion was abandoned following a disagreement between former partners Fraser and Robin Guthrie.

"It's a shame," he continued. "There was a 55-date tour booked [that included] headlining Coachella, going on after Coldplay, which would have been amusing. The money would have been incredible for sure. We probably would have killed each other by the end of it - or at least they would [Fraser and Guthrie]. But I think that's why bands do it [reform] these days. I would have walked away with £1.5 million [$2.5 million] tax-free."

Raymonde also revealed that he was close to abandoning the Bella Union label prior to his discovery of Seattle-based Fleet Foxes, who are signed to Bella Union in the U.K. and Europe.

"Finding that band really almost saved me not just musically but spiritually as well," he stated, adding that there are "lots of great avenues" for small indie labels like Bella Union in the today's fragmented market

"You've just got to do what you believe to be right," he went on to say. "The music business is in a bit of a mess right now, but I tend to just look at the positive side of things not the negatives. It actually feels almost like the punk days all over again."


Interesting to read how much the reunion would have brought our beloved Twins. There must some serious unreconcilable issues between Robin and Liz to pass on something as profitable as a proposed reunioin & tour.

Sad. For Liz, Robin & Simon. Sad for us all really. But especially for Lucy. Whatever happened 2 years ago for Liz and Robin to realize they couldnt work together even for such a brief time couldnt have been good on Lucy.

I'm going back to my cocktail now.

[Adam]

Simon: "There was a 55-date tour booked"... oh, Lord

[frarn]

so near, and yet so far .....


incidentally, the juxtaposition on the billing next to Coldplay would definitely have been intriguing ....

[Ghosty]

Good find, ForADay.

Earlier in the day Simon Raymonde, founder and managing director of London-based indie Bella Union and former member of cult U.K. alt-rock band Cocteau Twins, revealed further details on how close the band had been to reforming two years ago, following an offer from its old American booking agent.

"We agreed to meet in Bristol where [singer] Elizabeth [Fraser] lives and we all went up there and kind of agreed a template of how we could all possibly work together," he said. "Weirdly enough, by the end of the conversation everybody said: 'Yeah, we'll do it."

Raymonde went onto to reveal that the reunion was abandoned following a disagreement between former partners Fraser and Robin Guthrie.

"It's a shame," he continued. "There was a 55-date tour booked [that included] headlining Coachella, going on after Coldplay, which would have been amusing. The money would have been incredible for sure. We probably would have killed each other by the end of it - or at least they would [Fraser and Guthrie]. But I think that's why bands do it [reform] these days. I would have walked away with £1.5 million [$2.5 million] tax-free."


*Sigh.*

[Adam]

It's a shame
Indeed, because Dead Can Dance did worldwide reunion tour in 2005. Brendan Perry and Leesa Gerrard also were couple years ago and parted their ways as a lovers and bandmates, but it wasn’t problem to reunite and play some shows. Pretty sure it was all about the money - but hey, performances were great.

[randomrob]

I don't get the whole misapprehension that art has anything to do with personal politics... history forgets that great artists get PAID. And are motivated by it.

As it is, the whole CT fan community has been dragged through RG and EFs relationship pretty sufficient, there's nothing new to talk about anymore... fuck, it's BORING to talk about it, especially when all members involved are at the height of their real creative energy, working separately, while all the confusion and sadness over the end of the music is as fresh now as it was a decade and a half ago.

Helllloooooooo?

[mmmender]

Multi-faceted story from Billboard, featuring Simon about the 8th paragraph down:

http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/content_display/industry/e3ied2621cfc5e7c4cc86b4db181e80ac85



Thanks very much for posting this, I'm going to add it to the News Forum.

Thanks again,

Leesa

[Musette]

Ugh. I know I have something to say about this, so hold this space until my brain grows back.

[dprid]

It must have been a pretty fundamental breakdown to turn down £1.5 million for 3 or 4 months work. Sad :(

[mmmender]

........to turn down £1.5 million for 3 or 4 months work.........

EACH? You think? Or split 3 ways?

Come to think of it, Simon's quote did say "I would have walked away with..." and not "We would have walked away with......."

Dang!

http://www.nickelodeon.com.au/competitions/wandaswonderwords/imgs/cha-ching.gif

[Quisquose]

Man... I'm just trying to get my mind around that. I think that for 1.5 million dollars I could manage to find the wherewithal to work with the most despised people in my life for 4 months.

But then again, I have no idea of what it is like or what it takes to perform music on a world tour. I can only imagine there is a lot of stress involved even if you get along great with your co-performers.

[dprid]

Simon said "I would have walked away with £1.5 million [$2.5 million] tax-free.", so I guess that means each.

[dynamine]

sucks.

[mmmender]

Simon said "I would have walked away with £1.5 million [$2.5 million] tax-free.", so I guess that means each.
See post #10 above. I just figured that one out too.

Again............

http://www.nickelodeon.com.au/competitions/wandaswonderwords/imgs/cha-ching.gif

[Angel]

There are still some people that that amount of money or any amount wouldn't be enough to make me want to be around them.

[Martin63]

Simon: "There was a 55-date tour booked"... oh, Lord

Exactly. This is the first I have had confirmation of that fact. Coachella was positioned at the time as a one off.......despite a friend of mine in Germany who is a promoter being approached and asked if he was interested in putting the German dates together.

All very sad.......and it really does not look like we will ever see them on stage again

[ludwig]

Can someone explain me what a "55-date tour" means? Does it mean that everything was arranged and settled?

[dynamine]

well,he was quoted as saying "booked".i think so far...only he/they know the real meaning of that.sure would've been nice to see them again.

[Eccles9]

How a reunion almost happened? Now that's just teasing.

[Moya xx]

:nod:

[frarn]

There are still some people that that amount of money or any amount wouldn't be enough to make me want to be around them.

I can think of a few people from my lifetime experience that would fall into this category for me personally, so I cannot criticise anyone for finding themselves in this situation.

Its interesting that this as crept out into the public domain, but please lets not beat it to death like that horse that Red Star posts pictures of ...

:D

I think its time to accept that it happened, its done, people can move on, and so should we ....

[Musette]

Isn't this kind of um one of the forums that the um bandmembers sometimes sorta read?

[Daphne]

move on indeed :nod:

what is that syndrome where the first person to Bring up Hitler or the Nazis wins something?

maybe we could think of some name for the re-emergence of this issue every two years or so. I'm sure the 3 musicians have moved on.....maybe we can as well.

[Dpressed]

I agree we should move on ... but this is a forum dedicated to CT so you've got to expect members to wonder if they'll ever get back together .... at worst it stops the Liz album talk :evilgrin:

In addition, never say never ... the Eagles said they'd only get back together when Hell froze over .... so we got the 'Hell Freezes Over' tour when they did. A few years ago Spandau Ballet members were suing each ... they are now back on the nostala circuit

[postlibyan]

Daphers -- the phrase you are looking for is "godwinned". old internet lingo for being the first to bring up Nazi's/Hitler in any argument....

PJK

[randomrob]

maybe we could think of some name for the re-emergence of this issue every two years or so.

Assbiscuit Barbecue :nod:

[fredofla]

my only regret that the big money could not seduce them to play live together for a while is that it might have been our only hope to get them back into the recording studio again.

for me, Cocteau Twins REAL calling card was never about their (haphazard) abilities as a live "touring band"......no, it was ALWAYS strictly about what's there on those incredible and revolutionary sonic delights that were their studio recordings.

sigh

[Mr. ED]

Dang, for $2.5 million, I would play in a leather thong whilst my ex whips my ass in front of 50,000 people.

[postlibyan]

duly noted, Mr. Ed. should we start a collection fund to make this happen?

;)

PJK

[Mr. ED]

duly noted, Mr. Ed. should we start a collection fund to make this happen?

;)

PJK


Yes! I'd even settle for less with the same humiliation factor.

[andylama]

my only regret that the big money could not seduce them to play live together for a while is that it might have been our only hope to get them back into the recording studio again.

for me, Cocteau Twins REAL calling card was never about their (haphazard) abilities as a live "touring band"......no, it was ALWAYS strictly about what's there on those incredible and revolutionary sonic delights that were their studio recordings.

sigh

My sentiments exactly.

I don't give a damn that the tour never happened. In my mind, they were never a great live band. Without stacked vocal harmonies, the live show was like looking at a postcard of a beautiful place, instead of being at that beautiful place in person.

Further, considering the direction of the last releases (read: therapy lyrics), I'm not even convinced that another studio album would have been a great thing.

Now, a full-length album of CT songs reworked my Mark Clifford? I'd love that.

Also (listen up, whoever holds the rights to the recording) I WANT MY MOTHERFUCKING REMASTERED MILLIMILLENARY, GODDAMMIT!

Why the hell did that little gem slip through all the cracks during the worldwide remastering craze? It ain't right!

[Musette]

I agree.

Hm....I do wonder whether the divide over the "therapy lyrics" (HATED IT!) contributed to the generation of the perennial argument over the state of Liz's soul/her relationship with her fans/whether we are owed or not owed a new album, etc.

NOT looking to rehash said argument, by the way, guys...!

[edward]

Yeah, what's up with Millimillenary? It's only, like, their totally best song ever!
How can we live in a world where Acoustic Bluebeard gets scrubbed up and presented with a bow while Millimillenary sits alone in the corner, growing old?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_USnM5WTvgqk/SP8h5f_rJOI/AAAAAAAAAWo/DyD5THNmQMo/s320/coctwins.jpg

[andylama]

Yeah, what's up with Millimillenary? It's only, like, their totally best song ever!

Yup, one of my top faves... and ironically, one that would benefit the most from some earnest cleanup work.

[kennyshade]

Just been listening, again, to some recordings of Cocteau Twins live '96 tour. They sounded fantastic live during this tour. Liz's vocals were superb.Proof indeed that they could be STUNNING live ...listen to Pandora, Blue Bell Knoll etc. Unfortunately, I missed this tour and it as a VERY big regret.
As for the suggestion that their last releases were not so good.Milk and Kisses is, surely, one of their finest albums.
I would pay serious money to see them play live again, my friends. Serious money.

[slerbo]

I didn't realise Simon discovered the Fleet Foxes - my new favourite band were brought to light by a key member of my old favourite band (and still way up there)! That man has a golden ear, I tells' ya.

[GrantusM]

'Tis a shame. Understandable, mind you, but a shame.

Nice to know that they didn't do it for money. But the love of the music, the creation of the sound, and the love for one another are surely intertwined. It would be heart-rending to tour together and play all that music. For certain, the music and the memories/emotions are fused.

'Twould be nice if they could get past it, though. There's some great music out there (and thank you, Bella Union for much of it), but it's not the Cocteau Twins. The mind swims with ideas of where they could be in their progression if they were making music together now...

We'll just keep having to hold out in hopes of "someday..."

In the meantime, I agree - I'll put on some Cocteau Twins and have a drink...


Interesting to read how much the reunion would have brought our beloved Twins. There must some serious unreconcilable issues between Robin and Liz to pass on something as profitable as a proposed reunioin & tour.

Sad. For Liz, Robin & Simon. Sad for us all really. But especially for Lucy. Whatever happened 2 years ago for Liz and Robin to realize they couldnt work together even for such a brief time couldnt have been good on Lucy.

I'm going back to my cocktail now.[/QUOTE]

:shout:

[kennyshade]

If original members of the Twins can't reconcile their differences, then the only other option would be for Liz Fraser to form a new Supergroup and knock 'em dead at Glasto 2010.
I'm thinking:
Liz - lead vocals, obviously
Alan Rickman (Snape) on bass
Leonard Cohen - backing vocals and harmonica
Blixa Bargeld - lead guitar and industrial machinery
Me - on the drum machine.

Let's make this happen folks. Dreams can come true.

[Musette]

If original members of the Twins can't reconcile their differences, then the only other option would be for Liz Fraser to form a new Supergroup and knock 'em dead at Glasto 2010.
I'm thinking:
Liz - lead vocals, obviously
Alan Rickman (Snape) on bass
Leonard Cohen - backing vocals and harmonica
Blixa Bargeld - lead guitar and industrial machinery
Me - on the drum machine.

Let's make this happen folks. Dreams can come true.

You're my favorite newbie ever.

Sorry everyone else.

[iceblink555]

If original members of the Twins can't reconcile their differences, then the only other option would be for Liz Fraser to form a new Supergroup and knock 'em dead at Glasto 2010.
I'm thinking:
Liz - lead vocals, obviously
Alan Rickman (Snape) on bass
Leonard Cohen - backing vocals and harmonica
Blixa Bargeld - lead guitar and industrial machinery
Me - on the drum machine.

Let's make this happen folks. Dreams can come true.

Goddamn, that would rock to get Liz and Leonard on stage together!

And for an encore? How about a duet of Another Day a la Peter Gabriel & Kate Bush (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKAOu37oMkM)?!

Alan

[Daphne]

You're my favorite newbie ever.

Sorry everyone else.

no no musette.....you and I could be their backup dancers!!!

[Dpressed]

^^^^^^

:smitten: .... YES YES YES

[Martin63]

In addition, never say never ... the Eagles said they'd only get back together when Hell froze over .... so we got the 'Hell Freezes Over' tour when they did. A few years ago Spandau Ballet members were suing each ... they are now back on the nostala circuit


"Money Talks" to quote a song title from the criminally under rated band from Newcastle Penetration. Bands are making nothing much from cd sales these days and the royalty flow from downloads is erratic. Eventually the day may come when the pension funds needing topping up....... personal differences or not

[ScottL]

I'd be happy for them if, by chance, they were able to get together and do a tour just for the money. Even if they weren't that into it or whatever, if they were of that frame of mind they could get through the whole bit...I'd say more power to 'em. They deserve their due. Their catalog isn't going to give them the recognition I think they deserve, might as well get well paid for a tour...too bad that fell through, I felt particularly bad for Simon reading this.

[simon raymonde]

: ) dont feel bad for me please! while i shouldnt expect any different, in a two and a half hour talk, this all amounted to about a minute discussing the re-union that never was. Out of context this may all seem like a great headline buster for the billboard chap but the reality was quite different. Firstly i had a smile on my face the whole time during that question about the money, and not that it matters one iota but the bit about the 55 date tour was true enough though i am sure i said they were planned and routed rather than actually 'booked'. Either way i am genuinely not sad it didnt happen nor sad about the money! if i am honest i think i was for about 10 minutes when i heard it wasnt happening, but i have a very full and active life that didnt begin and end with CT, and i believe it didnt happen for a reason. Jeez of course i would have been very happy having a ton of cash to spend, who wouldnt, but what you dont have you dont miss.

Soon as it was clear it wasnt going to happen, it's business as usual for me. i love the band's music and those memories will always remain. i would always be open to the possibility unlikely though it has to be, but of course it is really not down to me.

have a lovely weekend.
simon

[mmmender]

It's nice to hear your side of the story, Simon.

Thanks for posting.

[ForADay]

Yes thanks Simon for the reply. But I think for most of us here on the forum, the article seemed to indicate a growing frustration on your part with the music industry as a whole. Whether it be with former band members or the trials of running a label.

I'll be the first to admit I'm not an avid fan of some BU signed bands, but I do listen and endorse those bands I do care for and was saddened to hear that Bella Union came so close to shutting it's doors for good.

Saddened mainly because of all I had heard/read over the years seemed to indicate that BU was more than an ordinary label. Interview after interview of signed bands gushed over the freedom of creativity fostered by you and the label in general. In this day and age of pre-produced and over-produced pop stars, it was comforting to know that lurking out there was a label that fostered genuine creativity of it's bands.

Reading through the Billboard article, my first reaction was how sad for Lucy. And that whatever Robin's and Liz's issues were, that they (more than likely) continue to this day.

But as I read on about how BU almost came to an end, I had visions of you giving up on the industry as a whole. And while I'm certainly thankful to Fleet Foxes for changing your mind and encouraging you to continue with the label for now, just remember that there are other bands as talented as Fleet Foxes out there in need of a label like BU to help them along the way. Bella's work isn't done yet!

I'd also like to take the opportunity to encourage you to continue writing. All of us here continue to hope for the release of a successor to Blame Someone Else. And for me personally, Ivy and Neet is without measure one of the most prolific instrumentals of all time. I can't even begin to describe what this song has meant to me over the years.

So while the story and this thread has been about the end of CT and it's failed resurrection, the near end of BU, I think it's safe to say all of us here and thousands of others around the world look forward to whatever it is you create - or help to create - next.

with "Fond Affections"...

[Fritter]

There's harder currencies than cash.

[mmmender]

There's harder currencies than cash.


(I know this is a really obscure reply, hopefully someone will get it)

MERCEDES BENZ NUMBER ONE!!!!!

http://cdn-2.psndealer.com/e2/dealersite/images/johnsontruckcenter/MercedesBenzLogo.jpg


http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/images1/ngor_haing1.jpg

[dynamine]

thanks,Simon.......we love you.

[by the sea]

I find it hard to believe you didn't want to smash their faces in.

[DAVIE]

You know the two other guitarests they recruited? When did they stay and when did they leave because I don't think I can see them in some of these 1996 vids!? There's a pointless bongo drummer too!

[edward]

http://www.cocteautwins.com/html/theband/other_members.html
http://www.myspace.com/5735290

BTW, that "bongo drummer" wasn't pointless. Did you happen to see them on the FCC or M&K tours? Mitsuo Tate and the other live performers were able to simulate much of the sound of the records. It was beautiful.
OK?

[randomrob]

http://blog.themavenreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/kim_bongo_575.jpg

[DAVIE]

http://www.cocteautwins.com/html/theband/other_members.html
http://http://www.myspace.com/5735290

BTW, that "bongo drummer" wasn't pointless. Did you happen to see them on the FCC or M&K tours? Mitsuo Tate and the other live performers were able to simulate much of the sound of the records. It was beautiful.
OK?

Yeah but you can never hear bongos, drums always pwned the bongos! Hmm doesn't have the dates of when they started and left either....

[edward]

Maybe it was for the crowd. Folks love seeing bongos (or congas for that matter).
http://bradley.chattablogs.com/congas2.jpg

[Angel]

Oh dear. "pwned"?

[dprid]

Oh dear. "pwned"?
It's a computer slang term derived from the verb "own", meaning to appropriate or to conquer to gain ownership. The term usually implies domination or humiliation of a rival, and is used primarily in the Internet-based video game culture to taunt an opponent who has just been soundly defeated (e.g., "You just got pwned!"). The term most likely came about as a common typo of the word "own" because the "p" and "o" keys are adjacent on a standard English keyboard.

[Chora]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003GEDMA2/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

[Chora]

I just recently saw this on Amazon Garlands, Sunburst and Snowblind, Head Over Heels, and Treasure Box sex vinyl being released in May. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003GEDMA2/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

[Angel]

It's a computer slang term derived from the verb "own", meaning to appropriate or to conquer to gain ownership. The term usually implies domination or humiliation of a rival, and is used primarily in the Internet-based video game culture to taunt an opponent who has just been soundly defeated (e.g., "You just got pwned!"). The term most likely came about as a common typo of the word "own" because the "p" and "o" keys are adjacent on a standard English keyboard.


Oh David, I knew that. I just haven't heard anyone but those geeky gamer and 15 year olds say it. It surprised me to hear someone on here say it and not sarcastically.

[Quisquose]

Wow! I see that the label does not appear to be 4AD, but I assume they must have a stake in it.

I wonder if Robin was even aware of this?

[dprid]

Vinyl 180 is a 4AD related label that has been producing high quality vinyl reissues for about 2 years, including a couple of CT reissues: http://www.vinyl180.co.uk/

[DAVIE]

Oh David, I knew that. I just haven't heard anyone but those geeky gamer and 15 year olds say it. It surprised me to hear someone on here say it and not sarcastically.

Yeah, well your 33 old enough to be my Dad and I'm 16, so deal with it if your at all trying to insult me

[paulr]

^^ BTW, Angel is a lady

[Angel]

Yep, all female bits here. Your being 16 explains so much now. I'm glad you told me. Thank goodness I never got knocked up when I was a teenager.

[dprid]

BTW, I'm David :)

[Angel]

What a little clusterf**k this is... :;):

[dprid]

That's one of my favourite words that I learned from Daphne - I'd never heard it used in the UK before she came out with it :)

[Angel]

Isn't it useful? I use it regularly. I would have written it all out but now I know there are minors floating around. (just a jab, Davie)

[paulr]

What a little clusterf**k this is... :;):

I hadnt heard of this before (I must lead a sheltered life), so I had to go to Wikipedia :

clusterfuck — chaotic and messy situation; multiple mistakes or problems happening in rapid succession.

Apparently its a US Marines term

Life is all about education.... ;) ;)

[Dpressed]

BTW, I'm David :)

& I thought you were Dprid

[DAVIE]

:( I'm sorry, I just thought with the male avatar and everything...I thought you were a typical bloke trying to annoy me, but you seem like a nice down to earth mum actually, woahh such a difference!

[Moya xx]

Blimey! What have I missed? ;)

[fredofla]

a royal cluckfuster.

[Angel]

Blimey! What have I missed? ;)

Not much.

[Ghosty]

bQfCdwjk048&hl=nl

Around 1 minute 50.

[hebe]

Vinyl 180 is a 4AD related label that has been producing high quality vinyl reissues for about 2 years, including a couple of CT reissues: http://www.vinyl180.co.uk/


so this is mean that we will have a another box to buy son????? LOL
I'm queueing..... :-0

[postlibyan]

Blimey! What have I missed? ;) the usual.....

:superconfused:

PJK

[Moya xx]

ok - thanks! :D

[dprid]

so this is mean that we will have a another box to buy son????? LOL
I'm queueing..... :-0
Last I heard they were working on a re-release of Treasure. Don't know anything about box sets however.

[Pale Clouded]

Last I heard they were working on a re-release of Treasure. Don't know anything about box sets however.

Hmmm? Didn't they already re-master Treasure?

Not that I mind buying it again. Love treasure...and Victorialand and HOH and....

[Dpressed]

Didn't think the Treasure remaster changed much ... but Garlands & HOH were significantly improved

[dprid]

Hmmm? Didn't they already re-master Treasure?

Not that I mind buying it again. Love treasure...and Victorialand and HOH and....
These are re-releases on high quality vinyl rather than remasters - not sure if they're using the remastered recordings or not.