BIOGRAPHY: "Cocteau Twins: Perhaps Some Other Aeon" by L.Beales

[Rosary]

ADMIN NOTE: THIS THREAD IS THE RESULT OF TWO THREADS ON THE SAME SUBJECT BEING MERGED TOGETHER - AUG/05


Does anyone out there know if any biographies have been published....I can't believe there aren't loads of books on such an important, influential group...(are any members currently in the process of researching or writing one?).

(I have read the 15 chapter history on .com)

[zed]

....as luck would have it, you've come to the right place.
don't hold your breath,... but our own beloved adimtistatrix is in the throws
of just such a tome.....................

expect to hear more when the time is right.

:) Z

[mojo]

funnily enough, we've had a letter forwarded to us at 4ad recently (to then forward on to Liz) from someone who wants to do just a Liz book.

it sounded like it was in the very early asking permission for stuff stages though...

[mmmender]

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information previously contained in this post has been removed by request.
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i am writing a cocteau twins book and have been for 1½ years now. it's already registered and i even have an ISBN number:

Cocteau Twins: Perhaps Some Other Aeon
ISBN 0-9730833-0-1

[dynamine]

that is great mmmender!can't wait til' it's done.
brilliant title as well.;)

[Adam]

A Cocteau Twins Book. At last. Great idea.

[Rosary]

Can't wait to read your book mmmender...I'm sure you will not have any trouble finding a publisher..the demand for such a book must be high...hopefully it will be large format with loads of the exquisite artwork included ?ballerina

[zed]

well.............maybe not THAT book, but one IS coming that does.
;) Z.

ps,...the cocteau book will most likely have cool photos though.
it's a very nice book.

ballerina Z.

[superblast]

Originally posted by mmmender

i am writing a cocteau twins book and have been for 1½ years now. it's already registered and i even have an ISBN number:

Cocteau Twins: Perhaps Some Other Aeon
ISBN 0-9730833-0-1

can't wait for that... how is it progressing? i'm sure it will be a treat.

[glowbo]

exciting! wonder if liz will cooperate...?

[Phil Lawton]

Glow

Mmmender will use her jungle training (don't ever mention 'Nam in her presence...she gets a bit twitchy) to hunt down the Fraser-creature. Anything Liz is unwilling to divulge will be elicited with subtle but exquisitely painful doses of torture.

[Avninder]

ADMIN NOTE: THREADS MERGED

I saw this book listed as items for sale but have never heard of or seen it. So the question is: Has this already been printed? If so, where can I buy it? Are there any good books out on the Twins? Are any books currently pending to be published about the band? I'd love to read a good informative book on the band that goes beyond what I've already read. I'm not interested in the gossippy stuff.
I remember my experience of going to my first Cocteau Twins show, the HOLV tour. So many fans were wearing all black and or pale white makeup. Being that I did not know what the band looked like at the time, I was expecting them to look just as... well interesting. When the Twins took the stage, I was shocked to see then looking quite normal. I was so happy to see this. They felt so much more down to earth than what I had expected. It was really refreshing. Similarly, I think that we as fans hold onto a lot of mystique surrounding the band. It would really be nice to set things straight and learn something about the people in the band that would ground them further into a reality based perspective.

[mmmender]

no books are available as of yet and mine is still in progress. i'll merge this thread with another one which has a similiar subject.

[Rad]

Who's Leesa Bales?

[mmmender]

Originally posted by Radagast
Who's Leesa Bales?

he just mis-spelled my surname of 'Beales'

[noboybands]

Originally posted by mmmender
no books are available as of yet and mine is still in progress. i'll merge this thread with another one which has a similiar subject.

<<all excited here>>

Leesa, will there be any notification when your fabber than fab Cocteau book is available?
Any chance it's before this February as I'm out of ideas for birthday pressies my other half can get me?
MWAH!

[Rad]

Originally posted by mmmender
he just mis-spelled my surname of 'Beales'

Hhhhaa.... I was joking.

[4CC]

ctblue :read: ctblue

Does a book that collates Cocteau Twins photos and memorabilia exist? If not, isn't it about time one did! I've lost count of the number of stunning band photos that have been posted by the good people at these forum pages, and they are all so beautiful, as everyone here must already know.

It seems an immense shame that nothing (that i can find) has been published about 'our' band yet. To me, CT is such an obvious choice for a fantastic book featuring photographs, tour details, discography, etc, like the internet sites do. Inside it could look so lavish. All the websites related to the Twins are truly fantastic and of course provide all the information above, but has anyone else ever hoped for a book about this remarkably inspiring and photogenic band that we all love and enjoy so much?!

If only there were ways of putting pressure on publishing companies to do so.

Thanks for reading. :)

[fornasetti]

I seem to recall that mmmender was umming and arring about whether to produce a book or a documentary about CTs. I vote for the book !

[4CC]

I'd pay good money for it too by the way.

[fornasetti]

I'd pay good money for it too by the way.


Me too, 4CC, but remember this is a book thread.

But I do know a nice Japanese girl in London who operates out of a flat near Regent Street. ;-)

[4CC]

Sheesh! And she told me she didn't have any other clients! ;)

[fornasetti]

Sheesh! And she told me she didn't have any other clients! ;)


If that were true, she'd be wearing rags and feathers from Salvation Army counters.

[fornasetti]

If that were true, she'd be wearing rags and feathers from Salvation Army counters.


And you want to travel with her
And you want to travel blind
And you know that you can trust her
For she's touched your perfect body
with her mind.

[dprid]

ctblue :read: ctblue

Does a book that collates Cocteau Twins photos and memorabilia exist? If not, isn't it about time one did! I've lost count of the number of stunning band photos that have been posted by the good people at these forum pages, and they are all so beautiful, as everyone here must already know.

It seems an immense shame that nothing (that i can find) has been published about 'our' band yet. To me, CT is such an obvious choice for a fantastic book featuring photographs, tour details, discography, etc, like the internet sites do. Inside it could look so lavish. All the websites related to the Twins are truly fantastic and of course provide all the information above, but has anyone else ever hoped for a book about this remarkably inspiring and photogenic band that we all love and enjoy so much?!

If only there were ways of putting pressure on publishing companies to do so.

Thanks for reading. :)
Leesa has an ISBN number for a biography, and she did start putting together a definitive list of releases as I helped proof read it against my collection. It's a slow painful job though, and one that can only ever be a labour of love as it will never make a profit.

As for publishers, well I hardly think that they'd regard CT as an obvious choice for a book of any kind. Ask yourself how much would it cost to put together and print a proper illustrated book, and then ask yourself how many copies they could reasonably expect to sell. Do you think they'd manage to sell more than a few thousand worldwide? I sometimes think our own love for the band clouds our judgement as to how the rest of the world sees them and values them. Were they really that photogenic, especially as they spent a lot of their time seemingly trying to avoid publicity, and let's face it - they weren't exactly the most beautiful band around! The number of offical photo-shoots seems extremely low for a band that were together as long as they were, and even if you add photos from magazines and the like it's still not an enormous archive.

As to numbers, this is probably the most active CT site on the internet, easily accesible from anywhere in the world, yet we have only just over 2600 members. Of these only around 700 have ever posted and only 400 have visited in the last month. Add the other CT sites that are around and perhaps you could multiply the active numbers by 2 or 3 times, but even so, to spend $30-$50 on a book about a 20 year old band would need a certain amount of dedication & love on the part of the fan, and I just can't see there being the thousands of fans out there that would be needed for a publisher to make a profit (especially as any book would almost certainly only be published in one country and hence not be easily available worldwide). Yes, maybe if there was some new CT music included it would sell, but not just for an archive of pictures, a discography and a biography.

Nope I think the only way would be to produce an extremely expensive limited edition book (i.e. 500 copies @ $100) to appeal to the die-hard collectors that grace these forums (put me down for 2 copies!), but even then I still think that making a profit would be tough.

[fredofla]

Nope I think the only way would be to produce an extremely expensive limited edition book (i.e. 500 copies @ $100) to appeal to the die-hard collectors that grace these forums (put me down for 2 copies!), but even then I still think that making a profit would be tough.


yeah, i wholly agree with this.

practically speaking,
except for the small number of fans here, who else would even be interested?

economically, a completist website makes far more sense.

besides, there are probably already enough coffee-table style vanity projects in this ever-too-hard-copied glutted world, so do we really need one more?

okay....i'll take that back.

if you happen to have a spare hundred grand or so that you can afford to live without then, by all means, go for it!

:)

:calla:

[by the sea]

I suppose it'll be just a bunch of facts, since the rest can only be speculation.

Of course, I know the truth. Who's prepared to face it, though?

[mmmender]

i know the truth as well, and i faced it long ago.....but i'm still here and i'm still in love with cocteau twins.

[fredofla]

to me, the truth is ONLY there in the music.

everything else is only a distraction from the truth.

what other "truth" could there possibly be?

....difficult personalities?

does that really matter?

[mmmender]

you're right fred. but i think if cocteau twins fans buy a book about the band they're going to expect details not just about the music but also details about the relationships between the band members. everyone love's a bit of juice in a book. i think also the average cocteau fan is generally aware that there were some difficulties, hence the break-up of the band....so to leave out any details wouldn't be doing any justice to the truth behind why/how they broke up and the reasons behind the difficulties. it is often these difficulties, in my opinion, that helped to create their sound. for example, robin going through rehab during the recording of FCC, i think that it's fair to say that this is public knowledge by now. and robin has been very forthcoming about his drug abuse with journalists. so the nitty gritty is just as much a part of the music as the instruments are.

[by the sea]

So, how are you planning to represent Liz's side of the story?

[mmmender]

So, how are you planning to represent Liz's side of the story?
by interviewing her. it's the only way i can get to her truth. i have details about things but they were told to me through either simon or robin. i need to have her input as well in order to express the truth.

[fredofla]

you're right fred. but i think if cocteau twins fans buy a book about the band they're going to expect details not just about the music but also details about the relationships between the band members. everyone love's a bit of juice in a book. i think also the average cocteau fan is generally aware that there were some difficulties, hence the break-up of the band....so to leave out any details wouldn't be doing any justice to the truth behind why/how they broke up and the reasons behind the difficulties. it is often these difficulties, in my opinion, that helped to create their sound. for example, robin going through rehab during the recording of FCC, i think that it's fair to say that this is public knowledge by now. and robin has been very forthcoming about his drug abuse with journalists. so the nitty gritty is just as much a part of the music as the instruments are.


i see your point here, Mmm.

and as much i do love knowing all the "juicy" stuff....i don't think there's anything there that could change my deep feelings for this music.

yeah, there's a part of me that would love a "tell-all" way way more than a collector's coffee table book.

are you up for it, hon?

there might even be a few more publishers interested with a project in that mode of delivery.

though, unfortunately, only a few.

yeah i could hear em already, "......Liz who? Robin who? Simon who? um. did they ever know Madonna?"

:calla:

[mmmender]

of course, there's nothing in the nitty gritty details that has changed how i feel about the music. the only thing that has changed for me is that i no longer admire liz fraser as much as i used to. but again, the information i have is still technically hearsay until i get the opportunity to ask liz herself about what i've been told.

[by the sea]

by interviewing her.

So, when is this so-called interview, supposedly, going to take place?
Talk about facing truth.

She told that other interviewer, Radcliffe, that she didn't know anything about Cocteau Twins.

[mmmender]

So, when is this so-called interview, supposedly, going to take place?
Talk about facing truth.

She told that other interviewer, Radcliffe, that she didn't know anything about Cocteau Twins.
robin told me he could arrange an interview with liz for me. as for a timeline, it's something that has been put on the back shelf for now. instead i'm working on trying to publish the collector's guide (i've called it "It's All But An Archive"), which i know won't be a big seller but i think the average collector would like to own a copy.

[by the sea]

robin told me he could arrange an interview with liz for me.

That doesn't mean you'll get anything out of her. I should probably tag along.

[mmmender]

That doesn't mean you'll get anything out of her. I should probably tag along.
you're right, liz will only tell me what she feels like telling me. i think however if she knows there's going to be a book published about the band she will want to have her side of the story understood, i don't think she'll just sit there and say nothing. then i'll just have to piece together what i can from interviewing all three members, that's the best i can do.

[by the sea]

So can I tag along or what? You could ball-gag me and bring me in on a leash. I'll behave.

[mmmender]

So can I tag along or what? You could ball-gag me and bring me in on a leash. I'll behave.
when the time comes and you're available i might just ask you to tag along. although i'm sure several other people will ask me the same question.

keep in mind that robin gave me the go-ahead to write and authorised biography of the band so iit's not going to be visits consisting of fun and games, i'm going to be delving into some very serious questions and looking for some very serious answers. i'm not sure that this would be anyone's idea of fun, it's not going to be kisses, hugs and autograph sessions.

[louis1st]

Maybe we could compile a list of questions for her?, one from each member of the board, something you've always wanted to know about Liz?

[mmmender]

Maybe we could compile a list of questions for her?, one from each member of the board, something you've always wanted to know about Liz?
i would certainly take a look at any questions that people really want to know the answers to, but i can't promise that i'll ask her all of them, and i also can't assure you that she'll want to answer them.

i know liz has a problem with being interviewed, past articles have proven that. she's always let others speak for her in a sense, and i think that this is a great opportunity for her to open up and tell her side of the story. however, i'm not 100% sure that she'll even want to participate, she may just want to forget about her entire cocteau experience. again, this is all speculation.

[4CC]

Thanks mmmender for combining the threads. It was not surprising this had been asked here before now. To answer dprid's comments, i do totally understand just how commercially non-viable (sic) a CT book might be, and how few prospective takers there would be for it. When i mentioned about the Twins being 'an obvious choice' for a book, i was thinking more about the subject matter from the view of a fan, rather than its suitability from a commercial/marketing point of view.

In some ways i can more easily imagine a book that charts the bands history in pictures with captions and therefore minimal text. But i do fully take on board the fact there may not be enough quality photos in existence to achieve this in a book of this type.

Compared to most others here, my knowledge of the Twins is probably laughable (but gradually increasing), so i'm not meaning to sound like i have the answers. But when you wander around an average large bookstore, i tend to see books written about much more obscure subject matter than a band who during their 15 years together helped to make intensely beguiling music and to change the lives of hundreds (if not thousands) of music fans around the world.

Thanks for all your efforts in this area to date.

:read: :clap: :)

[daniel-82]

Ill second that.Do you think Liz,Simon,Robin and even Will from the early days have any idea of the impact their music has had on the lives of all their dedicated fans,your generation,my generation and the many generations to come?

[mmmender]

Ill second that.Do you think Liz,Simon,Robin and even Will from the early days have any idea of the impact their music has had on the lives of all their dedicated fans,your generation,my generation and the many generations to come?
i certainly think they realise that they have a very dedicated fan base. cocteaufest is proof of that! i'll continue to run all of my cocteau twins and related websites forever or until i get sick of the music but i can't see that happening.

[kookaburra]

Why should Sage get to go along?

[mmmender]

you can come too, ok kook? but you'll have to carry my luggage.

[by the sea]

Why should Sage get to go along?

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/7154/gladiator2724lm.jpg

[Phil Lawton]

Maybe we could compile a list of questions for her?

I'd want to know what Wal-Mart are doing about the high incidence of wonky wheels on their trolleys. For some reason (it's probably a karma thing), I always get the spazzy one.

[Simonp]

How about a beautiful biography written by Leesa and designed by Vaughan Oliver? He could add a real visual element to the work in the same way he worked on Shinro Ohtake's Tokyo Salamander and besides he did do all of their early beautiful sleeves.

http://www.shinro-ohtake.com/images/ts1g.jpg

[mmmender]

i doubt i could afford to have v23 working for me!

[Simonp]

It would be such a worthwhile project maybe Vaughan could make it a labour of love?

[dprid]

Given some of the examples that have been shown on these pages by some of the forum members I'm sure we could get a great cover done by someone here.

Ivo perhaps? :D

Actually I'm serious - we have some very talented artists lurking around these forums :)

[starhopper]

I am a graphic designer/photographer (all my avi's are pieces of my photos) and I would help in anyway. Just let me know. :)

[Simonp]

Given some of the examples that have been shown on these pages by some of the forum members I'm sure we could get a great cover done by someone here.

Ivo perhaps? :D

Actually I'm serious - we have some very talented artists lurking around these forums :)

good point David - I'm pretty sure in all honesty that Leesa could do a pretty fine job of the design work herself. Maybe Vaughan Oliver could design the book cover?

[Outofspace]

One thing I would like to read in such a book is what other jobs they had, each of them, apart from music. I'm very interested in their non-musical lives. However, I do not care about things like: "why did Liz and Robin divorce?" and other too personal issues.
Of course, the most interesting part of the book to me would be the one concerning music. Topics like: "How often and in which way they rehearsed and how some songs were written" or "had they ever attended music lessons" would be the best. I would also ask them why they started playing music...

[Heaven]

Leesa, don't you also run Liz' website? I had the impression you at least randomly communicated with her. When is the last time you have spoken with her? From what you've been saying, I get the impression that Liz no longer talks to almost anyone.

Is she ok? Or are there other factors going on?

[Fritter]

Dear Leesa, Have you read the recently published book about Einsturzende Neubauten called "No Beauty Without Danger"? It's a fantastic format for telling the story of a band whose members might not get on too well, yet it manages to tell the story completely without any editorial input.

[mmmender]

heaven, i do also run elizabethfraser.com, her manager used to be the one who would pass any liz information my way but he's long stopped communicating with me nowdays. i get my information from either robin, simon or other inside sources.

fritter, i haven't read that book, but i'd like to considering the topic! maybe i'll have a look for it. reminds me of a recent book i purchased about the cure, it is the perfect format, not too much text, not too many photographs. that's what i'd like to acommplish.

[eboe]

leesa, i really haven't started work on the book i was thinking about doing, but i did have some publisher interest. if you wish i can drop this info in a PM to you, or we could try to work on the book together as i had previously suggested. i was just under the impresision that the biography was shelved in favor of a video documentary...

[mmmender]

i really do prefer the idea of working on a video documentary before i finish my book but if you'd like to collaborate and share your publisher info with me then contact me and we can work something out....maybe someone will actually be interested in publishing this so we can get it done!

[steven]

Is this book or ANY book by the Cocteau Twins every going to come out? I was in Borders Books tonight in Atlanta, perusing the music section like I rarely do, and I noticed books about the Pixies (most over-rated band ever) and PJ Harvey, of all people. Sure, you have the 53,000 about Cobain, but PJ Harvey? Mind you, I like her, but....

you can't tell me there is a bigger audience out there for PJ Harvey than the Cocteau Twins.

I know the Twins are not as reverred in the public eye as in my own head, but I have always found it curious their hasn't been a book published.

Was the break-up that bad? So fucking what a fax machine was used. Alot of more horrible things have happened. Maybe, deep down inside, the original members WANT to get back together, but they psychologically sabottage any effort at a biography because the last chapter hasn't been written?

I don't know - and please excuse the spelling in this diatribe - it's chemically induced. I just wonder why no book about 10 years?

Steven

[dprid]

I guess potential authors can't see a big enough market for it. It's not like the Twins rampaged round the world trashing hotels & driving cars into swimming pools is it.

As for leesa's book, well it's a major undertaking to produce a book and she's a freelance worker with 3 young kids. I suspect her priorities are somewhat different at the moment.

[mmmender]

thanks for that, david.

i'll just confirm by saying that right now my priorities and my finances don't allow for me to work on the book anymore. needless to say that most of it is already written but i simply can't afford to spend money on flights to finish up the book with band interviews, which are necessary to back-up much of what i've already written.

[eboe]

why cant you do band interviews over the phone... if you wish i could give you the email of the contact at the publisher who was interested in my idea of the book...

[Avninder]

While I'm at the jabs today... Will the book be titled, "Reunion"?

[Avninder]

Mmmender,
I know you mentioned it before that you're working on publishing a Cocteau Twins book. Since it has been a while since I've heard anything about it, I thought you may be able to shed some light on the project.
Thanks,
avi

[by the sea]

We decided against it. It was too one-sided.

[Fritter]

It's a tricky one, because it takes a fan to be bothered to write such a book, but fans often don't make the best biographers. Of course, there's LOADS of exceptions to this, (not least Simon Ford's biog of The Fall which I read over the last coouple of days), so I don't know why I bothered posting this.

Any band biog that contains the words "illicit substances" is highly suspect.

[mmmender]

Quite a while back I posted about the status of this.......I'll merge this newer thread with the other thread previously started.

Even though it's virtually complete I've decided to shelve the book in exchange for a documentary. It meets my skills level and perhaps more importantly I've got the equipment and access to make it happen. Don't hold your breath waiting for anything soon though, you have no idea the amount of copyright approval that's going to be needed to do the job right. The good thing about already having the book layout is that I can use that text as an outline for my documentary. It wouldn't be complete however without updated personal interviews. I've also been granted access to some rare Cocteau footage which I'm hoping to include as well.

[mmmender]

Any band biog that contains the words "illicit substances" is highly suspect.
Pretty much every band biography delves into drug use.....I think even Tiffany and Debbie Gibson went down that beaten path.

[Fritter]

No, I meant the protective euphemism, not the fact that they did drugs.

[Avninder]

Quite a while back I posted about the status of this.......I'll merge this newer thread with the other thread previously started.

Even though it's virtually complete I've decided to shelve the book in exchange for a documentary. It meets my skills level and perhaps more importantly I've got the equipment and access to make it happen. Don't hold your breath waiting for anything soon though, you have no idea the amount of copyright approval that's going to be needed to do the job right. The good thing about already having the book layout is that I can use that text as an outline for my documentary. It wouldn't be complete however without updated personal interviews. I've also been granted access to some rare Cocteau footage which I'm hoping to include as well.

Given that you've already spent a lot of time and money towards the almost finished book, it would be a shame not to be able to recoup some of your investment as well as feeding the Cocteau famine.... Speaking of which, I wonder if some charities or the government would donate funds to aid the Cocteau famine? I could give you a pic of me from my days in college. I was so skinny and pathetic looking, even Sally Struthers would start whining. But seriously, I was wondering about your feelings regarding publishing what you have so far with the caviot that the points made are without interviews for verification? There are so many unauthorized bios out there. However, I completely understand your choice in not publishing it. It seems more often than not that people and bands rightfully begrudge authors who try to make a quick buck by writing anything about them.

[fornasetti]

I think the only way would be to produce an extremely expensive limited edition book (i.e. 500 copies @ $100) to appeal to the die-hard collectors that grace these forums (put me down for 2 copies!), but even then I still think that making a profit would be tough.

I still think David's idea was right. I'd pay $100 or more just to have the written text that tells the band's story. I'm not fussy about how glossy it should look or how many photographs it needs to contain.

And if Leesa still hasn't got Liz's take on things, there are a few of us who could get to Bristol easily and find out some answers if she would give an interview.

[Simonp]

I'd prefer a book. Something really nice and special with some lovely design work featuring photos and artwork from their career.

[fornasetti]

I think if we want a lavish product, we're going to have to finance it.

[Simonp]

It has to be lavish. It's for the greatest band in the history of music. I'd pay the money for something really special.

[fornasetti]

OK - collection time !

What do you think, Leesa ? We'll all share the financial burden. And those with art and design talents could make contributions free of any fees and charges.

Its a nice thought.

[Avninder]

OK - collection time !

What do you think, Leesa ? We'll all share the financial burden. And those with art and design talents could make contributions free of any fees and charges.

Its a nice thought.


+1 I'm in.

[fornasetti]

Maybe, but Leesa's not taking the bait.

[Teal Sea]

Leesa, you're probably sick of the question but given its now nearly August are we likely to see your aforementioned tome in a good book seller any time soon??? Cheers from Australia....The Teal Sea

[mmmender]

The answer is no.

Read through the entire thread to understand why.

[Simonp]

How about some paragraphs of what you've already written...surely you havent destroyed all your work?