Theories, guesses and suppositions

[Phil Lawton]

Sat in traffic last night, I threw a CT compilation disc into the car's player. I'd chucked all sorts onto it, mostly b-sides and odds and sods. As I had time to muse and listen out for previously undetected nuances, I began to formulate a theory about the mysterious inactivity of the Golden Throated One.

While you read this, please remember that this is just a stab in the dark (which is probably what I'll get when the Liz Zealot Brigade read this), so read it with an open mind.

OK, the aforementioned compilation disc went from "Spanglemaker" days all the way to "Touch", with snippets from every era in between. Obviously, the mutation of the GTO's voice was apparent for me to hear, especially the change after she'd given birth. However, something quite apparent struck me by the time I'd moved into the "Milk & Kisses" b-side epoch.

I think her voice had gone.

I know that I've read that Liz tried to break out of "old [vocal] habits" and would have naturally developed her timbre, phrasing and delivery. However, listen to the power of any track from "Blue Bell Knoll" and compare it to anything after "Milk & Kisses" (including some songs from that album).

While "This Love", from Craig Armstrong's excellent "The Space Between Us", is fairly pleasant, Liz's not pushing her larynx to any great degree. The same can be said for "Teardrop" - although the range is there, the 'oomph' is missing.

If my theory is correct, is this the reason the GTO's vocal on "Lothlorien" from the "Lord Of The Rings" soundtrack being so far down in the mix that it's almost not there?

And, more pertinently to the good citizens of this forum, is it also the reason that she's shied away from any full-blown release?

HAS the voice gone?

Before the LZB leap on me, I'll implore everyone to just think about it and, crucially, use the power of their ears before condemning me for something that could be considered tantamount to heresy.

[Baddy2shoos]

You may have something there Phil, i mean she did push her voice to the limit throughout her career,ive lost count of the number of times ive knackered my throat trying to sing to all the blue bell knoll tracks. I am however quite good with Jeff Buckley's Grace lol

[seeingtree]

Maybe she has just decided to use her voice differently?
Or maybe she damaged her vocal chords somehow or other over the years.

Certainley in 84 she used to blast out those songs and the things she did with her voice were amazing. By 94 it had all calmed down and got a bit whispery.

Reminds me of when Siouxsie had problems with her voice in 81 and she went to a witch dr who prescribed urine for her to drink.

I'm in a similar field, but have yet to prescribe urine.

[Phil Lawton]

Angel

Yeah, I tried the urine therapy for years, until I discovered it was actually a genuine attempt at making beer by one of our local breweries.

Small wonder I gave it up.

Doesn't some actress or other (don't press me for names, Angel....I have no idea who most celebrities are) drink it AND rub it on her face? Apparently, she has great skin but no-one can get close enough to admire it.

[someotherian]

Originally posted by angeldust
Reminds me of when Siouxsie had problems with her voice in 81 and she went to a witch dr who prescribed urine for her to drink.
i think this was just a misunderstanding. when siouxsie said she had voice problems, the witch dr. said "you're taking the piss" and siouxsie thought it was a prescription...

(p.s. this 'joke' may lose something in translation :))

[glint]

Liz might read these and see that we refer to her as GTO and bust out a cover of Dick Dale's "Super Stock 426".....

"I want my super stock 426"......

[Phil Lawton]

Glint

"GTO" is purely my invention and I take full responsibility for any acts of violence, retribution or vindictiveness which Ms Fraser may attempt to inflict on the good folks of the site.

But we're safe, Glint....if she ever posts here, I will walk naked down Birmingham High St, carrying a placard which reads "Slap me, beat me, bleed me, but never leave me".

[glint]

As long as she DOESN'T want to see that....But you never know...

Along the vocal lines, I remember being disappointed when I got Bjork's first solo release, and immediatly noticed that she dropped her signature "growling" that we all came to love (well some of us). But maybe she can't harness that same vibe anymore either....

[mmmender]

phil, i think what is really sad here is your unwillingness to accept.....there are books on the subject ya know! ;)

hypothetical here.........liz leaves band to pursue a solo career and it's many moons later with nothing tangible released. my question to you is......do people not have the right to change their minds? what if liz really has decided to just sit back and take it easy for a while even if that wasn't her initial plan? does she owe it to us or anyone else for that matter to tell us so? i think not. yes it's part and parcel of being in the public eye but to me this could very well have been one of the reasons that liz parted cocteau ways some time ago. i don't think she's comfortable in the spotlight and she's probably enjoying her time to breathe for a change.

my opinon with regards to her voice has always been the same......early on in her career she was in top form and perhaps a bit wild, there was no formula, a few years later she had worked to develop her craft and was in excellent form and aware of her limits. when she went all funky and started doing the scat singing i had lost interest and her vocal style became tedious at best when she did milk and kisses. that album just never made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up like love's easy tears did.

so to (sort of) answer your question........liz is not gone, she's still happily living in bristol, nor is her voice gone, as she's still able to offer up the odd tiresome contribution to someone else's record and ride along on the safety of their spot-lit coat tails......ovo? upside down? puh-lease!

i think what she had way back then is gone yes.......a magic that can and will never be re-captured. it happens to the best of us, but i'm dead fuckin' chuffed that she's captured it all on records that i can play and play again.

[Phil Lawton]

"i think what she had way back then is gone yes.......a magic than can and will never be re-captured. it happens to the best of us, but i'm dead fuckin' chuffed that she's captured it all on records that i can play and play again."
Lees,

Widja all the way there....I was just postulating (it's OK, I have a licence to postulate, which includes a cogitation permit and a pontification certificate) and generally blathering on, you know what I'm like.

That said, I could be as accurate as anyone else, so ner-ner-ner-ner-ner.

I just wanted to share, damn it....don't turn me away! Blanche! Blanche! Let me in! (Reckon I have a future as a soap script writer?)

[seeingtree]

Originally posted by someotherian

i think this was just a misunderstanding. when siouxsie said she had voice problems, the witch dr. said "you're taking the piss" and siouxsie thought it was a prescription...

(p.s. this 'joke' may lose something in translation :))

You are a chucklesome chappy :)

I shall tell that joke next time I do my flute trick...;)

[mmmender]

c'mon that joke was as obvious as a shit stain on white pants! :D

[watchlar]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton


HAS the voice gone?



Phil...all I can say is that seeing her perform in 96 on the Milk and Kisses tour...the voice had definitely NOT gone...I think there may be some changes...due to age...emotional maturity...etc...but it was very much alive in 96. perhaps it is the style that she has chosen to sing on all recent collaborative tracks...

Watchlar

[REPLICESS]

Originally posted by watchlar


...I think there may be some changes...due to age...emotional maturity...
Watchlar

Exactly! she was so VERY young when it all began.
A girl will not sound like a woman :D

[mmmender]

Originally posted by REPLICESS
A girl will not sound like a woman :D well............for the right sum of money she will!! :D
oink. oink.

[stratton]

I have to agree with Watchlar, her voice is definitely not gone. It has certainly changed over the years. I don't have it in front of me but I think the Mondo2000 article from '94 is on this site somewhere. In it Liz talks about the changes in her voice through her career. At the time she was going to see Jill Purce(www.jillpurce.com) because she lost some of her range during the FCC sessions. I presume this came about due to the emotional upheaval going on between her and Robin at the time. What she was learning from the coach was that her previous method of singing was very bad for her vocal chords.

From what I understand she was using the scat-singing on the FCC tour to change her old habits but with hopes of recovering her early range. The two performances I witnessed on the Milk and Kisses tour were evidence of her success. While she had adopted a new operettic style of singing she was also capable of hitting the lower register notes as well. Listen to Pandora from the Black Session or Seekers from the BBC Session to see what I mean. Her performance of Ella Megalast on the '96 tour was proof that she could still sing like she did on BBK. I have a pretty decent bootleg of that somewhere if anyone wants a copy.

In summation I would say that Liz is trying to sing in a way which is not only healthy to her vocal chords but also different than her Cocteau-style. It's obvious she's trying to make a break with the past even if we don't always like the results. I thought her performance on LOTR was spectacular but way to short and a bit lost in the mix. I always have to remind myself in those situations that what we want to hear and what we actually hear from the vocalist are at odds. Another example of this is the work Lisa Gerrard did on The Insider soundtrack. Some of the pieces were beautiful but way too short for my enjoyment outside of the movie. However, she was obviously in control of the mix and production. The track 'Meltdown' from that just haunts me and is evidence that Lisa is also still at the top of her game.

[steven]

Originally posted by watchlar


... perhaps it is the style that she has chosen to sing on all recent collaborative tracks...

Watchlar

I don't think she really has alot to work with musically in any of her non-cocteau collaborations. Personally, when I think of some of her performances given what she has to work with, I think she has come out with outstanding performances. 'Black Milk' comes immediately to mind. To my ears, there really isn't alot going on in that song, yet her vocal performance is fantastic and really makes the song. I think her best non-cocteau performance is 'Lifeforms' by FSOL. I think she had music there she could actually work with and she was allowed to be more experimental given that style. She's not going to recourse to the Tiny Dynamine era vocals on Ovo. Maybe the music that is coming to her just doesn't move her enough.

Steven

[Sean_Montgomery]

Well, that certainly is a lot of supposition regarding Liz.

Myself, I think her voice is just fine. It's just that she uses it in a more straightforward manner now, and it isn't multitracked and processed the way it used to be.

As for the lack of output...well, who the hell knows. But since this is a forum for speculation....how about writer's block? It could be that her 'productive' years were largely the result of unresolved psychological issues that she worked out after splitting from Robin. With the demons slain, maybe the well has run dry, so to speak...or the motivation to sing isn't what it once was. Or I could be just talking out of my sphincter.

[ScottL]

Yeah, I'm with you Sean...sounds like it makes sense to me(where ever the sound is coming from)....there is alot to be said for someone's emotional disposition in music making and singing especially.

[zed]

..oh if we're just shooting our mouths off...
as far as i can tell, being an artist, and going through
those agonizing "dry spells," i'd warrent a guess that she still has it....and she'll use it when she wants.

i'll wait.

:cool: Z.

[watchlar]

Originally posted by Sean_Montgomery
With the demons slain, maybe the well has run dry, so to speak...or the motivation to sing isn't what it once was.
I think you very well might have touched on something HUGE with this statement...most great artists are driven by their personal psychological discomfort...I know I'm generalizing...but in Liz's case...I think the "working through" on FOUR CALENDAR CAFE is a testament to that probably being true for her...I hope the well hasn't run dry...I'm sure it hasn't...but coming from something like the Twins...expectations are unbearably high for anything that you would do after...that has to be a factor as well.

W

[Phil Lawton]

Points taken.

Now....show me a track since 1997 where she has displayed the power and vocal gymnastics of, let's say, HOLV.

It may be folly (or it may not) to say that the GTO's voice is still OK, because she sounded OK on "Mezzanine" in 1998....four years ago.

I'm not picking an argument or being "clingy". Read another of my posts elsewhere - I forget where - in which I said that I'd written off any chance of Liz releasing anything, ever.

[randomrob]

I had noticed Liz's voice seemed a little- well, 'broken' on FCCC, and it sounded like a lot more back-masking was being used- this'd be a question for Simon wouldn't it? As a rule, Ive heard that singing is actually better for the upkeep of vocal chords than speech....... as for the Lothlorien track- you know if they'd cranked it up it would've taken the wind out of the rest of the soundtrack:D

[Lucibelle]

Having been to a vocal coach myself (took YEARS to find one worth their salt), I can say that yes, Liz was doing some 'naughty' (but wonderful) things with her voice for quite some time. MANY singers do. Add this too the rigorous demands of touring, and some nasty, nasty things can happen. From interviews that she has given and such, it seems very obvious that she has realized this, and has taken great care to work on her technique. Although I don't believe that she's 'lost it', I'd say it's safe to assume that we will never hear her do certain things with her voice ever again. As for the solo thing, how about this? What if she is waiting until she has developed her 'new' voice to her liking? Vocal training is difficult, and most often takes years to master. On top of that, she is having to break old habits and replace them with new ones. When I started that process, my voice would often do strange, sometimes ugly things, because the voice was so used to doing things differently, that it would want to slip into those old habits. It can be compared to how a young man sounds when his voice is changing, although not quite that dramatic. Not to say that you lose total control of your voice, as you can always go into the 'old' way just long enough to make it sound decent instead of strange, but when you are trying hard to correct your technique, your voice is going to sound bad from time to time. This goes for pretty much anything. If you play golf and are totally self-taught, you might be good, but you know you could be better, and you know you will never play like Tiger Woods without some serious coaching. Once you start to take lessons from a real pro, what used to feel good now feels awkward and foreign. Even though it is 'correct', it just doesn't FEEL correct and will take a long time before it feel as comfortable as the old way of doing things did.

So add this to the ever-growing list of theories on why we haven't heard the solo Liz album. Perhaps she's just waiting until she has found her 'new' voice and can work it well enough to satisfy her, and blow everyone away all over again! :)

[mmmender]

*bump*

[scott]

I know there are some on this list who hate to gossip but ...

awhile back I had read that the spirtualized fold had been hitting the needle on occassion. I would hate to think that she would get her self involved with something like this but it could certainly explain her absence as well as her perceived dimishing vocal range.

i myself havnt noticed any great difference in her voice. from ovo to armstrong all is great.

I just wish we would hear something from the GTO. her inactivity certainly leaves her open to these types of criticisms and rumours.

[noboybands]

Originally posted by watchlar
Phil...all I can say is that seeing her perform in 96 on the Milk and Kisses tour...the voice had definitely NOT gone...I think there may be some changes...due to age...emotional maturity...etc...but it was very much alive in 96. perhaps it is the style that she has chosen to sing on all recent collaborative tracks...

Watchlar

i agree here - and while 'at last i am free' isn't an obvious wow-er, it does have it's merits - i initially agreed with leesa's opinion that it wouldn't sound out of place in a supermarket (or lift ... or when you're on hold for the 45th time trying to speak to the 'helpful' person on a 'helpdesk') but there's a definite beauty and grace there - something liz has always given any song she's sung on (cf. the bathers)
she's certainly not stevie nicks yet, not by a long chalk

[noboybands]

Originally posted by randomrob
I had noticed Liz's voice seemed a little- well, 'broken' on FCCC, and it sounded like a lot more back-masking was being used- this'd be a question for Simon wouldn't it? As a rule, Ive heard that singing is actually better for the upkeep of vocal chords than speech....... as for the Lothlorien track- you know if they'd cranked it up it would've taken the wind out of the rest of the soundtrack:D

good point about the LOTR soundtrack - the only other person who could have blown it apart would have been Lisa Gerrard IMO

[noboybands]

one last point on this thread - does anyone else find it worrying that Sarah brightman did a not half bad cover of 'this love'?