jojo was a man who thought he was a loner

[mmmender]

it seems a contentious issue but it has to be discussed as it's been creeping forth in many threads and is naturally bound to.

let it be known that i was obviously very upset when i found out that cocteau twins were no more. i'm a massive fan and collector and it was the end of an era for me, an era that played and continues to play a huge role in my life. but i got over it. i recognized that they, like the rest of us, have needs. needs that were obviously no longer being met as cocteau twins, needs that went beyond cocteau twins. add to this growing distance, misunderstandings and time and you make for three unhappy cocteaus.

then......i put my obsession for the band aside and asked myself if i'd prefer that these 3 very talented people continue given their current state of dissatisfaction and continue for my benefit or end it when it's good and right for them? the answer was obvious.

i think i'd be more upset if each of them crawled off into their respective corners of the world and we didn't hear a peep (although liz is a borderline recluse!)......i am thankful for simon and robin's efforts with bella union. they can take all they've learned, both positive and negative experiences, and form a young label with great potential to perhaps serve as a vehicle for the next obsession of some other young soul, their 'cocteau twins' if you will.

if the band were ever to reform again as the cocteau twins that we all know and love - would it still be the same? to me the answer is a simple one: no. sure i'd be happy but i feel i'd be constantly comparing their 'new' work with their 'old' work.

can you honestly say that if they did reform you wouldn't be saying things like "yeah, it's great but not like the old days" or "yeah that new album is amazing but it's nothing like treasure." i'm sure that this is a bands worse nightmare when they make the cautious decision to reform after many years apart. so many bands have suffered from this and much of their audience responds unfavourably to it. now, i'm not saying that if they did reform that their musical efforts would necessarily be worse but what i am saying is that it wouldn't be the same. i'd listen intently but would always know that i was hearing the sounds of a gallant sail once torn. it simply would not and could never be the same again.

we cannot retrace our steps, we cannot turn back the clocks. what's done is done, the music that was made was made. only the future will hold the fate of cocteau twins. but for now i'm more than thankful for what they've given me, the legacy that is left behind.....and i feel it is greedy of me to ask for more.
it's honestly the best music i've ever heard. pure fucking magic, magic not made with trickery, magic that is grounded and real.

[zed]

.............once again, beautifully said.
their music is as fresh to me now, as it was then...
that's a legacy and a half...in a strange way..i just don't need any more. every time i hear bbk...it still gets me. it's the same with all of them.
im just glad they were there.............. behind every work of art, is a liveing being, with love and pain and a life deep in as much, if not more complexites than you'd really ever want to know....but maybe in this age of intsatutionalized voyuerism...maybe ..........

nah. that's just nuts.

all hail the king! the king is dead!

zed.:cool:

[dynamine]

sooo true mmm,

as i'm sure alot of us were sad by split,i know i was.it was also the end of an era for me.part of my childhood,part of my life.i've
collected alot of items over the years,and still do.of course it will
never be the same,maybe better,maybe worse,but if they were
to reform,this time away was all for the better.people need a
good head cleaning once in a while.and u r right,new material
would of course get compared to old,well it would be new to
us but old to them if they chose to release the unfinished album,
what was there like (7) songs or something?anyway,what's
done is done,i won't heal unless i cry!



on air now:rhp=japenese to english

[crushed]

I will always remember when I discovered the twins ('85), the absolute joy and amazement I experienced whenever I walked in to the record shop - there seemed to always be a brand new Cocteau e.p., and of course in a beautiful 12" record sleeve!!! I spent just about every damn penny of the money I earned that year on CT's.

I'll also always remember the day Blue Bell Knoll was released. I mean, I was blown away when I got it home an put it on. I played it all day, and skipped school, too, to listen to it. Those are great memories that I'll always cherish, and the feelings flood back to me whenever I play twins songs.

But, you know what? You grow, and you realize that there are MANY wonderful things in life, and ALL of them change (for better or worse)...and (eventually) they all go away (or you do). Parents, siblings, friends, your own kids...homes, cars, pets, jobs...

All that's left are memories...or if you're lucky, some photos, a video...or maybe a record album that can bring it all back.

We have it good, us CT fans.


:)

[simon raymonde]

these hypothetical questions are great for forums of deceased bands because they stir emotions within us, everyone has a slightly varied opinion, and for the most part we'll never know.

the bands that split and reformed can never recapture the past glories, because that is not whay they reform. When you split from a friend/lover and years later meet up, you still have deep feelings of course, but it is NEVER the same, because time changes us all, experiences harden us, shape us, whether we care to believe it or not. With our past records, time can stand still, in fact not exist at all. We are transported back to that moment we heard THAT song, and it is a seductive almost eden-like experience. BUT reforming does not make much sense for a band like CT. New Order just about managed it, Echo and The Bunnymen just about managed it, who else? From that era, not too many. I don't think CT should 'just about manage it'.
So just why was it so special then? I really do not know. Because a million things all happened that made no sense at all, except when we stepped inside a studio, for a few glorious years, things made perfect sense?
You don't need to know us or our personal shit to realise that reforming bands is a conscious, calculated, obvious thing to do, and you should remember that CT (for the most part)was not about conscious anything or calculated anything. It was about now, spontaneous thoughts, gambles, mistakes, going down roads with no signposts. The music business has changed too dramatically for such a fragile concept to survive. And we couldn't even deal with it then when it was far easier to deal with. Now it's all about accountants and lawyers and figures. I think for a brief period in CT history, all that crap was totally irrelevant. We didn't even have a manager for 8 years! We could not have existed in 2002 for that long. we'd have been eaten alive.

And cynical though i sound, i hark back to a comment by the sea made something about me obviously still caring about the band, and loving it blah blah, i have romantic memories not just of CT , but of that part of my youth, and that is not me hankering after a replay of it, not me wishing i was 20 again, it is just purely me able to say for the first time in a long while, that i have warm memories of the whole time, rather than awful memories of the end.

I do not want to go back there. I cannot see the band reforming ever.

[simon raymonde]

but hey....
strange things happen!

[mmmender]

........when peppermint pigs fly.............

http://www.cocteautwins.org/pig.jpg

[dynamine]

i think alot of us can respect that Simon,about you not
wanting to go back there.i don't think anyone expects that
either.and of course it's NEVER the same,but regardless,solo
or not whatever you do,we are all still fans of your work.



bye!

[Lucibelle]

Heh heh hehhhh!:D You're great, Simon! You make me laugh! I don't mean that in a bad way, either. I've said my piece on this site about the band getting back together, but I'm not about to hold my breath. What good would that do? If I held my breath for that long then I'd be long dead to hear what it sounded like if you ever DID get back together!;) I won't say that I wouldn't love to hear it, because I would. Even if it just meant completing the last songs that were being worked on. But the time is definately not right, definately not now, and may never be. For me, I wouldn't want you guys to get back together if it was going to only satisfy those waiting for it, and be torturous for the three of you. You've already admitted to never saying never. I'm sure you've grown from those years in CT in a way that we could never imagine. The same for Liz and Robin. It was what it was and it is what it is. I'm just thankful that it was. I hate to think of my own life without your music as a part of it. I am eternally grateful. Thank you!:)

I think the three of you together made a magic that has so far been unsurpassed, but time has yet to write the final chapter. Could there be a CT reunion in the future? Perhaps. Perhaps not. But what about the possibility that the next band to make the music that transports us beyond space and time has yet to form? What if they're forming right now? What if they are a band that come to us through you, via Bella Union? Let us think about that, hmmmm??? And let us also think about how our lives would have been had there not been Cocteau Twins. It's scary, I know:(, but think about it...... Ultimately we would have all survived just as we did, but we wouldn't be here having this discussion, and we wouldn't have that passage into space and time to pop into a CD player whenever we wanted to escape the weight of this world.

Patience..... We COULD go and grab them at gunpoint to finish that final CD (like I may have >ahem< suggested at some point on these threads:rolleyes: ), but ultimately, if it is ever to happen, it has to be in their hearts to do it. And guess what?? It may never happen.

It was what it was, and it is what it is.

[watchlar]

I have a question...what rates a POST 5 stars...number or responses? or the moderator...just wondering

;)


LMAO

*smooch* mendy

W

[Troy]

Hello Simon,

I'm new here and would like to say .....Thanks for the music that I sware was written just for me....

CT is music that dared to be original and soul soothing in such strange and tense world.

I have plenty of music that I hope to listion too when I'm 60 or 80 years of age and I know that CT will be on that list!

THANK YOU!!!

[Lucibelle]

You know Watchy, that's a good question! I've been noticing a 5 star rating to many of the threads that Simon has contributed to. Maybe that's it, but I'm betting that 5 star threads are those that contain the word "voyuerism", or have anything to do with that subject. Of course, any thread that refers to the use of Crisco is immediately docked 3 stars. Any thread that Phil visits gains a purple chicken, and any thread that the lovely mmmender visits must be treaded upon carefully, as there is much on the floor that could cause one to slip and fall! :eek:

Just kidding, mmmender!;) By the way, Crisco Twister at my house this weekend to celebrate getting off of airplanes!:D

[watchlar]

LOL LUCI....

W

[Troy]

Comon baby! lets do the twist!

I'll bring the Mikes hard lemon aid and some red wine of course!:D

[Lucibelle]

It's a date!:D

[Phil Lawton]

Simon

Does this sound familiar?

Voice in the crowd:"Only the true Messiah would deny his divinity."

Brian: "Well what sort of chance does that give me? Alright, I AM the Messiah."

Crowd: "He is! He is the Messiah!!"

Brian: "Now.....fuck off!"

Voice in the crowd: "How shall we fuck off, o Lord?"

You might recall I mailed you a while ago saying that a CT reunion would be a huge mistake. Nice to see you agree.

[simon raymonde]

i believe that when you have truly loved something(someone), you know exactly when you have to let go. You , by the sea, don't have the love angle quite right with me. If you think i visit here because I can't let go, you're wrong though i can see why you would think that. I will take a wee break though, cos i don't want to take over here!
be well all of you.

[mmmender]

You , by the sea, don't have the love angle quite right with me. If you think i visit here because I can't let go, you're wrong though i can see why you would think that. I will take a wee break though, cos i don't want to take over here!
fucking fantastic:(

[mmmender]

to answer the question about thread rating.....a thread has to receive a minimum of 2 votes for the rating (stars) to appear. you rate a thread by selecting the rating option which appears at the bottom of a thread page, below the 'post reply' button.

you can only vote/rate a thread once. the rating changes after each vote to reflect the average rating.

hope that makes sense.

[watchlar]

yes it does...i can't believe i've never seen the "rate this thread" option at the bottom...oh well

W

[mmmender]

Originally posted by watchlar
yes it does...i can't believe i've never seen the "rate this thread" option at the bottom...oh wellnow we're in trouble, right? ;)

[steven]

I think it's inevitable when bands reform, "new" material will always be compared to older material in the original period. Hypothetically speaking (as I do not think the Twins will ever reform), if they did, the long break may allow them to chart in new musical terrority, which could be quite exciting. The work should be considered on it's own merits, though, it would be compared to previous efforts.

I think if they did decide to collaborate again under the name CT, their respective members solo work could fuel the new creative direction. Another of my favorite bands, The Church, has benefited from this style, as Steve Kilbey is in four other groups (i.e., Guilt trip, Re:fomation, Jack Frost, and solo) and Marty Wilson Piper is in two other (solo, All About Eve). The members of the church often consider 'the church' now to be the sideproject, instead of solo/collaborative work being the sideproject.

Though, given the twins are not likely to reform in any capacity, I for one feel very fortunate I have had the opportunity to experience their wonderous music.

Steven

[Troy]

True....so true.

mmmember I rate this thread a 91/2!:D....he he

[anelan]

We always compare this album with the last album with the first album. If a band reforms the comparison isn't that much greater I don't think, although the band does set themselves up for big criticisms from the media I guess.
I'd add a couple more successful returns to Simon's list: Wire have come back twice, each time different, each time just as (ir)relevant, each time awesome. Suicide are back again next month and if their last shows are anything to go by they have a harder edge. Also, add Siouxsie and the Banshees to that if this years shows were anything to go by. Not a whiff of nostalgia.

[Lucibelle]

Originally posted by by the sea
Now that everyone on this website is convinced that you will never be reforming as a group, it would be the perfect time to make something strange happen.

Please don't feel that I am being disrespectful to you. I just believe that when you truly love something you shouldn't let go so easy. I am not letting go.



Let us not forget that there are two other members of the band that have an equal say into if a reunion could/would ever happen. I don't see them on these boards discussing it, Simon has not mentioned them discussing it, chances are, they are not discussing it. Also, in respect to said two members, reworking any of the songs, finished or not, without their approval would be a huge no-no and a stab in their backs! I would SERIOUSLY doubt that Simon would do any such thing that could not only bring about legal disputes, but drive the band even further apart. It's only been five years for them. While this may seem long to us, it may not be nearly long enough for them. We have no idea what kind of wounds each is nursing, and how long it will take for them to heal. Time cannot be rushed.

[mmmender]

*bump*

[iceblink555]

Well, technically it was Liz who made the phone call that ended it all, right?

But apparently things had been pretty difficult for awhile before that. I recall Simon posting somewhere (CT email list, I think) during the post-M&K era that he didn't think the band would be together much longer.

--Alan

[REPLICESS]

I personally feel they gave/did enough, and I'm satisfied with that.

It's a large enough back catalogue to get my 'fix' when I need it.

I think it's sad to see bands 'milking' their bit of the musical spotlight and going on for years & years (re-makes & 'best of's), I kinda lose respect.