Blue Bell Nell - the well known Victorian flower seller!

[oldwill]

This is the definition from the " dictionary" at cocteautwins.org:

"BLUE BELL (Blue Bell Knoll): n. A plant bearing bell-shaped, blue flowers, esp. a. A European plant, Scilla nonscripta, with grasslike leaves and fragrant, blue-violet flower clusters. b. The harebell. c. A plant of the genus Martensia. (Blue Bell Knoll may refer to the old legend that if one can hear the knoll of the bluebell, then death is upon him.)"

This may have been pointed out before but according to my concise oxford dictionary a Knoll is "a small hill, mound (from the old English cnoll which means hilltop)"

Knell = the sound of a bell, especially one rang solemnly to mark a death or funeral

Knoll = nothing to do with funerals and a generally nice place to hang out.

Or maybe I'm missing a subtle joke here?:confused: :)

[mmmender]

it's all speculation.....as liz was very guarded and only offered up odd bits and pieces of lyrics on a few album sleeves we'll never really know for whom the blue bells knolled.........unless of course simon can remember.

or we could always ask our resident flower essence practitioner!!?

[zed]

............hmmm, when in doubt, call a professional.

;) Z.

[spanglemaker]

As far as I can remember blue bell knoll simply meant a little hill flowered over with these pretty flowers.

[zed]

yes............thats all it is.

but that's enough. for me at least.


:) z

[Phil Lawton]

Oldwill

I had a rant about this (Me? Rant? Surely Not!?!?!?) in the .com site a while back.

I think someone somewhere has missed the distinction between "knoll", "knell" and "toll".

Live wrong and prosper.

[dynamine]

As far as I can remember blue bell knoll simply meant a little hill flowered over with these pretty flowers.
eggs-ackly!

but as leesa put it,we may never know for whom the blue bells knolled.

[frarn]

eggs-ackly!

but as leesa put it,we may never know for whom the blue bells knolled.

to paraphrase ...

"Ask not for whom the Blue Bells Knoll, they Knoll for you!"

[petroldarling]

Yes i always assumed it meant quite literally a little flower covered hill...

i forgot 'knoll' also meant a sound.

[Sentiment]

Hello,

so I was googling about this mountain (Blue Bell Knoll Summit) and saw links to this old Cocteau forum post and thought to ask if anyone had been there:


http://www.mountainzone.com/mountains/detail.asp?fid=3333056


I think the clue with finding Cocteau lyrics would be to gather
where they were hanging out during their 20's and what books
(dictionaries, atlas, geography magazines) were available
to them. I just assume from reading interviews that they
would nitpick words they found in literature, but young
people whose been doing music since their late teens
just don't have that much of books in their houses,
so there has to be a source for them.

Unless the flower blubell knoll is frequent in Scotia
(like athol-broze would be), I assume they picked
a book and just point their finger, like an Atlas,
or it could from a poem too. I mean if the terms
didn't have such precise meaning I would accept
that they are pure creations, but...


Sentiment


PS: what's with the photo at the top of the Forum page?
Where is that ? It looks like the most boring of suburb behind.

[mmmender]

PS: what's with the photo at the top of the Forum page?
Where is that ? It looks like the most boring of suburb behind.I have split this thread and made this a topic of its own.
You can find the new thread here:
http://www.cocteautwinsforums.com/showthread.php5?t=19778

[mmmender]

I think the clue with finding Cocteau lyrics would be to gather where they were hanging out during their 20's and what books (dictionaries, atlas, geography magazines) were available to them. I just assume from reading interviews that they would nitpick words they found in literature, but young people whose been doing music since their late teens just don't have that much of books in their houses, so there has to be a source for them.

Unless the flower blubell knoll is frequent in Scotia (like athol-broze would be), I assume they picked a book and just point their finger, like an Atlas, or it could from a poem too. I mean if the terms didn't have such precise meaning I would accept
that they are pure creations, but...

If my memory serves me well, I think I recall reading somewhere or hearing her on an interview, that Liz used a wide variety of sources to gather both her lyrics and her song titles. Things like foreign dictionaries were mentioned, which is evident when you find words in other languages in songs.....French and Polish, are two languages she used that I can think of off the top of my head.

Thinking more about it now, doesn't she refer to some of her sources as well as examples in the radio interview she did for "International Poetry Day"??

Also, I think it's safe to assume that she was fairly well-read (poetic works in particular) and she made this known by references to well-known people like "Evangeline" (Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/104-2571208-8691130?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Henry%20Wadsworth%20Longfellow)) and "Rikean Heart" (Rainer Maria Rilke (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b/104-2571208-8691130?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=rainer+maria+rilke&x=0&y=0), or perhaps even the author Amelia Evangeline (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/104-2571208-8691130?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Amelia%20Evangeline). Then there's the possible reference to "Tranquil Eye" found in "Thus Spake Zarathustra (http://www.amazon.com/Thus-Spake-Zarathustra-Friedrich-Nietzsche/dp/1845882423/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202110660&sr=1-1)" (Friedrich Nietzsche) "Bless me, then, thou tranquil eye, that canst behold even the greatest happiness without envy!" In particular I think Liz found some sort of parallel to herself in the story of "Evangeline" (which I also refer to in the cocteautwins.org dictionary (http://www.cocteautwins.org/%7Eleesa/cocteautwins/cHTML/html/dictionary.html)) as the "tale follows Evangeline and Gabriel, elite young lovers (whose engagement is broken off) through an ordeal of separation and eventual tragic reunion. Evangeline emerges as a heroine representing the traditional value of fidelity. Evangeline pursues her destiny....she is rarely seen in action....rather, she is transported, while Gabriel is allowed the full restlessness of the Western pioneer."

Also, I think it's fair to say that she also used some sort of scientific reference book to find all of the Latin butterfly names used in the song "Melonella" as I'm sure she didn't know those off the top of her head.