underrated

[mmmender]

the most underrated cocteau twins songs in my opinion.......

(1) quisquose
(2) pale clouded white
(3) millimillenary

[dynamine]

yes,i can totally agree on quisquose.i think the same can
be said about melonella.you know,there alot out there,but
quisquose would be atop my list.

[zed]

MMM.........pale clouded white...comes with it's own ephinany.

so good it scares me.

Z.

[slipmaskin]

Oh yeah... Quisquose stunned me from its very inception, which coincided with the purchase of the Box Set. Lovely, intangible, gut-wrenching beauty... the howling of Liz has been subjected to repeat many a time. Gasp.

...and I'm new. Here. Growing fond of the place; nice set-up mmmender. Props !

Hejdå,

/Matte

[slipmaskin]

Melonella truly puzzles me... to this day I'm not inclusive with a stapled verdict. Successively, I've found it a tad on the disjointed side of things, which calls for a disparate feel, and I'm not sure what to make of that fact. It's originality won't be negated, but is that equivalent to greatness ? I think I like it, but I'm not sure...?

Undoubtedly as schizophrenic as this post.

Time to listen to the Echoes In A Shallow Bay EP (more than worthy of admission) ?

Hejdå,

/Matte

[steven]

I totally agree about 'quisquose' and 'pale clouded white.' Other's I would say are 'Those Eyes, That Mouth', 'From the Flagstones' and 'Three Swept.'

Steven

[Musette]

People underrate "From the Flagstones"?

[steven]

I've noticed quite a few negative opinions on from the flagstones on here and elsewhere.

Steven

[randomrob]

flagstones had the dubious honor of being the first twins song where my friends and I could understand what liz (FRASER) was singing...

[ScottL]

Well I think Quisquose and Pale Clouded White are both great, but amongst fans don't seem too underrated...maybe Quisquose a little...but who doesn't like PCW? It seems pretty popular to me...I think those wailing guitar sounds are brilliant...I liked EiaSB right from the start....whereas TD had to grow on me...

I guess Pepper Tree seems underrated..or at least, it is one I think is truly stunning which isn't often mentioned as a fav...
Dunno what else...feels like getting lost in speculation...
Ok..I know Aloysius seems well like, but it is my fav song on Treasure to be honest...really makes me smile in a big way.

[RunawayBay]

Alice
Quisquose

Lori
--------
on air now: Pale Clouded White

[Phil Lawton]

I've always thought that "I Wanna Rock 'N' Roll In Heaven Wid You 2 Nite" is sadly neglected, as is "My Baby Can Boogie".

"Itchy Glowbo Blow" is rarely mentioned either - a real spine-chiller.

[zed]

Oh shit Phil...that tune is utterly amazing!!!!!!!!
you got a nine minute version of that too!!??

:) Z.

[Phil Lawton]

Z

I wish...it's all over far too quickly for me....like rice pudding with a lump of jam in it.

[superblast]

millimillenary is a great song, definitely underrated. scott, i agree with you re aloysius.. it's my absolute favorite song on treasure too and one of my favorite ct songs in general.

[glint]

I'm not too sure if it's underrated, but "Eggs and their Shells"....wow!

[zed]

Phil......yeah i know....sigh,.......but you know, in the long run, if songs like that ran nine/ ten minutes...we'd all be in comas...

strewth!

Z.

[crushed]

cicely

[dynamine]

PERSEPHONE, and fotzepolitic

[dprid]

Wax & Wane - very moody and atmospheric and I think it fitted my state of mind when I first heard it. Still one I turn to.

Five Ten Fiftyfold - love the way Liz is mixed into the distance on the chorus with a touch of echo.

Lorelei - Quite a harsh sound but with Liz's breathy vocal over the top. A nice combination

Pepper-Tree - if only for the last 30 seconds

Donimo - I like the use of the choir at the start and the way it changes mood so often (and I'm certain she's singing about an eager beaver!)

Cherry Coloured Funk - A simple song compared to many, but a lovely showcase for the contrast between Liz's high and low registers.

My Truth - a very easily overlooked track, but it has a sort of pure simplicity that I like.

Pur - not underrated at all, but I simply refuse to compile any kind of list without it in :p Turn up loud, put on repeat and wallow!

[zed]

MMM.............i think that the reason quisquose is overlooked, or underrated is the strange energy it's got..a really moderne feel.
i think liz really dug in and beat that sucker ta death....
it's the kind of song that you have to work at to really appreciate.

my opinion, for what it's worth.........

:cool: Z.

[mmmender]

Originally posted by zed
it's the kind of song that you have to work at to really appreciate.you see, i happen to think it's one of those songs that you don't have to work at to appreciate....to me it's a very easy listen and offers up some classic cocteau sounds....it's a great song to deflower someone with who's never heard of the cocteaus because of it's broad range......it's fine, delicate and powerful where it needs to be. a classic beauty.

[ScottL]

Oh yeah, My Truth is one of those that you may not at first think of as their best, but it has caught me at times and really blew me away...

and maybe Quisquose was easy for you to digest, but those who had to get used to it will probably agree about the abrasive wailing voice...I came to love it, but the abrasive voice seems a big dividing line with listeners...some love it because the passion...it grew on me for that reason, but it took a while because the abrasive voice...I have friends who flat out can't stand that abrasive singing still though. I like the balance between soft and abrasive in Plain Tiger....it is quite nice.

But it is clear to me songs that the wailing-Liz crowd like....often Loves Easy Tears, Millimillenary(album verson), Sugar Hiccup, Pearly Dewdrops, But I'm Not(is this one underrated? I think the wailing is a scorcher on that song, gives me chills)...

[Musette]

<(and I'm certain she's singing about an eager beaver!) >

Ooh that's good. Over that bit, I always sing "weasel, weasel, weasel, llama, llama". It doesn't quite work, but my friends have never listened to that song the same way!! :D

I feel almost feel bad, though, because it's a really beautiful song. :)

[mmmender]

Originally posted by ScottL
But it is clear to me songs that the wailing-Liz crowd like....Pearly Dewdropsbleccch, chalk that song up as another skipper for me!!

hey, stop throwing things at me, i'm just being honest!!;)

[ScottL]

sure sure..I don't care, but it still fits in that category..I didn't mean if you like one you like them all...more to the point, if you don't like the wailing Liz, often don't like most most of those...anyother good wailing Liz examples?
I find it ironic that Liz took to wailing animal noises on the FCC tour while the album itself seems the least wailing-like of them all...anyone else?

[zed]

Scott........... i would imagine the differance would be various happenings in elizabeth's world between the recording and tour production and rehearsals....though i'm not really sure how much rehearsing they actually did. i've read a few articals(NOT the last authority by any means) that sugesst this was a very volitile time.

but then, i suppose you'd have to ask liz, and one can really see her being appalled at the personal nature of the question.

it all boils down to....she just hadda let it go....

my opinion.

:confused: Z.

[someotherian]

my only real problem with this track is when liz goes a bit out of tune. still not one of my fave tracks but the music is interesting and i can deal with the wailing and yelping. i just get picky about tunelessness.

[ScottL]

Ian, man I totally know what ya mean...a few points her voice takes on some alien overtone harmonics or something...if I don't get scared and run and hide...I sit in awe of how she made those noises...

Zed...I'm not sure what you are getting at ...ask Liz what(of a personal nature)? You mean why the contrast between the Live and Studio takes in the FCC time? I wasn't meaning to speculate on her emotional condition, I thought there was some explicit attempt at vocal experimentation, I just thought it curious that it didn't manifest on the studio recordings but came about while touring for that album...I mean, there may have been a whirlwind of emotions and all..I just thought at a basic level she made a style decision...an interesting contrast. I wonder what others think.

[zed]

......Scott,
i just meant that after the recording, for both personal and artistic(try seperating those!)reasons, she most likely felt the need to take things in a very differant direction...... on one level it reminded me of primal scream therapy, but consciously directed.

better?

:) Z.

[mmmender]

this brings us (somewhat) back to the whole fcc/m&k discussion. i found the depth of fcc much more intriguing and mature than the material on m&k.....what i did dislike though was her vocal experimentation with the songs during the tour. the fcc songs did not translate well with her new-found jazzy-scat format....it was fine for a few songs but quickly got on my nerves. it was a real shame too because some of those fcc songs exercise her vocal abilities marvelously in a studio setting.

now, back to the wailing.......i love it. but i think that the difference between those who love it and those who hate it lies in when they first heard them. i think the die-hard early on fans who were introduced to the wailing liz got used to it and loved it from the start.....anything that came afterwards was just pure development of her style and vocal expression. i love the wailing!! HAZEL - BRING IT ON!!!!

[glint]

Here, Here! I also LOVE the squeakiness on "Dream Baby".

[ScottL]

Yeah mmmender, I didn't mean to leave out one of my early favorites, Hazel, the BBC version rocks IMO. That is a song to drive through winding forest roads at maximum spead to...in a nice car...I follow you on the the wailing progression too...as one listening postmordem, it is interesting to me to hear from old folks like SteveG about their experience getting Lullabies when it came out...as perspective I don't have...but I did come to appreciate it too...

Zed: all better now...thank you ;)

[watchlar]

Originally posted by mmmender
.....what i did dislike though was her vocal experimentation with the songs during the tour. the fcc songs did not translate well with her new-found jazzy-scat format....it was fine for a few songs but quickly got on my nerves.

amen...hallelujah...the most disappointing concert I've ever been to in my LIFE!

W

[Lucibelle]

I'm a big fan of Quisquose, but I'll admit that it took a while for it to grow on me. I love the Liz 'howl' and I loved her use of it in her shows (although I've only been to two :(). When I go to a concert and it sound exactly the same as the album, the first thing I do is listen extra closely and make sure it's not being lip-synced, the second thing I do is become dissapointed. I like to hear things played up during the show. Now, I don't think I was at the show that is being referred to for it's scat-type style, but I love to see her really get into what she's doing, even if it means it makes the songs sound entirely different. The Liz 'bark and howl' is something that is so uniquely her. Not because no one has ever done it before, but because her unique voice gives it a tone unlike anyone else. I must say that there are very few songs that I'll actually skip, although Bluebeard immediately comes to mind:rolleyes:.

Luci

[watchlar]

Originally posted by Lucibelle
Now, I don't think I was at the show that is being referred to for it's scat-type style, but I love to see her really get into what she's doing, even if it means it makes the songs sound entirely different. The Liz 'bark and howl' is something that is so uniquely her.
Luci

I agree with you Luci about Liz's wonderful ability to do amazing things with her voice...but the FCC tour? I was with a friend introducing them to the Twins for the first time...and er uh..he kept saying..."She can't really sing now can she"

She could have done much better, still have been "original" and different from the album versions...but she just sounded like a beached dolphin to me...it was horrible.

just my opinion of course...
but then the milk and kisses tour....WOAH...amazing

W

[mmmender]

the HOLV tour blew me away.....but then again so did the m&k tour.............but that was so long ago...........WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH i want my cocteau twins! :(

ok, i just had to get that off my chest, i promise never to do it again.

[MCocteau]

I simply adore her version of Bluebeard from The Tonight show with Jay Leno! I was pretty shocked when I heard it the first time, but it is simply amazing!!!!

[Lucibelle]

I have not heard that. :( Yes, I know it's Bluebeard, but even so, I'd like to hear it. I went to hear it online once, but it was taking FOREVER!!!! :rolleyes: I'll have to try again.

[MCocteau]

Some person you know made a vcd including it :) for further informations ask MMMMMMMMMMmmmmmender...

[badjumper]

Nobody ever seems to mention Aikea-Guinea

This has some great sweeping guitar dramatics, an original plodding bass line and the vocals are just beautiful

Dear Heart is also magic

[Marios]

Fotzepolitic and Oil of angels

[superblast]

Originally posted by badjumper
Nobody ever seems to mention Aikea-Guinea

This has some great sweeping guitar dramatics, an original plodding bass line and the vocals are just beautiful

i've heard robin guthrie quoted as saying aikea-guinea was very underrated - he regarded it as some of their best work and it didn't get the recognition it deserved.

i love oil of angels too marios... i'd also like to suggest wolf in the breast as underrated. it's a wonderful song.

[Phil Lawton]

Supe

I do believe that I've read an article where Guthrie blames the title of the EP for it's commercial failure.

I don't know how accurate either the report or, if it's true, the sentiment is, but it's an interesting theory.

[superblast]

yep! that's exactly what i was thinking of phil.. a recent cocteau twins radio special over here had a mention of that article...

[zed]

......anyone know where that interveiw first saw print?
i've got a really nice batch of ct interviews and i'd like to go back to the sorce without reading them ALL....

just wondering...
:cool: Z.

[Phil Lawton]

I've no idea, Z.

[superblast]

found it! this is from cocteautwins.com... it was first printed in jamming magazine in 1985.

Robin Guthrie: "That [the Aikea-Guinea EP] was done in a big flash digital studio that we got cheap, with really brilliant equipment. It sounded, well, not as good as it could have done. But that song is so underrated, one of the best we've written. It pisses over most things we've ever done, it's brilliant! I think the reason it didn't do any better than it did was purely down to the fact that it was called Aikea-Guinea and it wasn't an easy thing for people to say. I'm convinced that's the only thing that stopped it."

in my opinion aikea-guinea really was the best they'd done at that stage...

[Phil Lawton]

Well done, Supe.

Makes one wonder what would have happened if "Heaven Or Las Vegas" had kept it's original title. Mmmmmmmmmmmender can correct me here, but it was something like "Five Crisp Blue" or somesuch.

[zed]

fabulous work supe's!!

saved me hours of reserch!....Phils gotta point!

it was something like that...blue whatever.

:) Z.

[REPLICESS]

Originally posted by badjumper
Nobody ever seems to mention Aikea-Guinea

This has some great sweeping guitar dramatics, an original plodding bass line and the vocals are just beautiful

Dear Heart is also magic

Both these tracks would be in my 'Top 10' C.T tracks 'Dear Heart' is one I've always wanted to cover actually.

[ScottL]

Robin Guthrie: "That [the Aikea-Guinea EP] was done in a big flash digital studio that we got cheap, with really brilliant equipment. It sounded, well, not as good as it could have done. "

in my opinion aikea-guinea really was the best they'd done at that stage... [/B]

Yeah, thanks for finding that SuperB..I recall reading that...but I agree that sound quality of that bleeding edge(like so many at that time) DIGITAL studio always bothered me....that hiss...it IS in the vinyl too, I went and bought it thinking it was just the way it took to CD...but I totally agree it is above and beyond anything at the time. I do agree with a former statement, by Rob, that it is a bit repetative..but I think it IS brilliant anyway.

I really think it took a good 5 years after before digital studio's starting improving and finding that higher bit-rates etc were needing in the recording/mixing phase....when digital started, everyone was all in to how it was an exact replication etc....of course it wasn't close, the benefit of course was that once captured it would remain forever if not erased, which had a value that was finally realized years later when the quality of the A/D conversion improved

[Lucibelle]

And don't we have fun with our digital studios nowadays, Scott? ;)

[ArnoldZiffel]

1) Lazy Calm
2) From The Flagstone
3) Eggs & Their Shells

[moeism]

i find this difficult, because either i haven't been arond long enough to get the feel of individual sng discussions, or i feel like we all seem to like the cocteaus for different (yet similar) reasons... but i must say i find all of garlands and hoh underrated, but that's because most people around here love holv era the most.. or maybe i'm over generalizing, but hey...

[moeism]

but while i'm still on ths thread...

because of whirl-jack

[petroldarling]

oh, it's millimillenary.

definately.

that song is one of the most beautiful things i've ever heard.

[kookaburra]

because of whirl-jack

Oh, indeed!

[Simonp]

Know Who You Are At Every Age

[Baddy2shoos]

Aloysius and Amelia so pweeertttee

[4CC]

The Hollow Men
Hitherto
Why Do You Love Me
Itchy Glow-Bo Blow
Know Who You Are At Every Age
Otterley
Rococo

I also would say Quisquose and Melonella, though they've had numerous mentions earlier in this thread.

[mike_mhg]

Don't know if it's considered underrated but Sulitan Itan doesn't get much mentioning and I think those long drawn out notes of Liz are just fantastic, set against Robins extra dreamy guitars.

And somebody has already mentioned Pepper Tree.

[dprid]

Pepper Tree
And being as Pur is their greatest ever recording, then Pur is obviously criminally underrated as well.

[Simonp]

PUR is one of their greatest tracks ever Dave - I agree. A beautiful uplifting song.

[Barbazul]

Amelia, Shallow Then Halo, Quisquose, Round, Flock of souls

[andylama]

oh, it's millimillenary.

definately.

that song is one of the most beautiful things i've ever heard.

Yup.

The crime is that this orphan track managed to escape the remastering regime. THis track would benefit from a good cleaning up. Still, it is magical.

[mmmender]

........and it was the first song simon & robin wrote together when simon joined ct!

[kinty]

the most underrated cocteau twins songs in my opinion.......

(1) quisquose
(2) pale clouded white
(3) millimillenary

Underrrated by whom?

M

[starhopper]

"Golden Vein", the BBC version.

[Ghosty]

oh, it's millimillenary.

definately.

that song is one of the most beautiful things i've ever heard.
Yeah! And the live at Vera, Groningen version is even better.

[chaco75]

(3) millimillenary

totally

[starhopper]

Yeah! And the live at Vera, Groningen version is even better.
So where was the TPO version recorded from? It's the only one I have of this song.

[Ghosty]

It's a bootleg recording of comparatively good quality. The song is played a bit slower and Liz sings it very delicately in her angelic higher voice.

[thatmouth]

Mizake The Mizan. Way too good to be padding out a cd single.

[4CC]

Mizake The Mizan. Way too good to be padding out a cd single.
Good shout, that mouth.

[kevimetal]

"Plain Tiger". I really like this one, haven't seen it discussed at all. I wonder if it was ever played live?

[ossian]

Plain Tiger was played on the 1986 tour. I have a bootleg somewhere. London 1986 I think...

The live version of Millimillenary from that Dutch bootleg is pretty fuckin fantastic, I agree.

[petroldarling]

........and it was the first song simon & robin wrote together when simon joined ct!

really?! i love to know things like that.

[salve_sons]

Wait...what "version" of bluebeard did they do on Leno?

Not the "accoustic" version, obviously, but perhaps a stripped down version of the single?

Is it so different that it should be considered something "new" to listen to beyond a "live" version of the song?

And if it was on "the internet" and now Leesa has it...

can you post it to Dials?? Pretty please? I'll promise to spell your name right!!!

Thanks

[salve_sons]

1. Circling Girl...no doubt about it...
the chorus which keep climbing to the sky, the wash of guitars reminiscent of more aggressive tones from Robin, but a little pinano in there too...great melody. Mature work.

2. Great Spangled Fritillery

Perhaps their most ambitious, haunting song...tempo changes, great yelps of power and majesty...wow...still blows me away...!

[chased]

"Plain Tiger". I really like this one, haven't seen it discussed at all. I wonder if it was ever played live?

I agree, plain tiger is underrated, the bassline sounds like its alive, and that solo at the end will just about kill anybody

[Funkjedi]

Round
Hitherto
Oil of Angels