Robin Guthrie Guitar Sound

[Andy]

Would very much appreciate any input/suggestions for replicating Guthrie's guitar sound/textures -- particularly the later work. What might be a common fx/petals setup? Any off the shelf products with a "Guthrie-like" pre-set? This is strickly for a home (non-stage) environment.

Best,

Andy

[crushed]

Andy,

I have no doubt that someone who is an actual musician will give you a better reply that I will, but I've messed around a little bit and managed to get something that reminds me of a few of his sounds.

I have three guitars (a stratocaster/a weird looking custom semi-hollow body (I found it at an auction)/and a semi-modified pawn shop special - with a single foil pick up), a crappy little '70's-era Fender tube amp, a crappy solid state Fender amp, and a handful of Boss pedals.

I've played around with stringing together a digital delay, a flanger, and two chorus pedals in different combinations. I generally turn the choruses to max, the delay to just below max (or so it repeats maybe 6-10 times while fading out) with the rate of repeat set on how quickly or slowly you strum or pick, and the flanger...just depends.

Figuring out how to re-create the guitar technique on songs like 'frou-frou foxes' or 'oomingmak' or 'those eyes, that mouth' was pretty easy. Simply pick or strum at the exact rate of the repeated signal on the delay. The repeated notes pile on top of one another and make it sound like there are two or three guitars. It really sounds cool when you change notes (or chords), as the sound of the prior notes (or chord) fade out while the new notes (or chords) build in intensity. Even with my shitty gear it sounds amazing.

I also play with the settings on the choruses and flanger, and it's easy to get sort of a slightly wobbly effect that Robin often used. But his sound for songs like 'iceblink luck', that's way beyond my understanding.

Cheers,

Christopher

[ScottL]

Yeah, I don't know myself either....I did read something about the use of lots of delays and less(or no) reverb generally...but the chorusy sound is certainly due(in part) to a harmonizer in many cases...Eventide is the big name I know of...would love to have one...but we're talking $1500+ as far as I know...I'm sure there is loads of stuff, including post-recording tweaking...those who know could inform you better indeed...
POST EDIT:
Actually I just checked Ebay...there is a range of models and age of Eventide harmonizers...you could snag one for $700-$1000 it appears...and in you might be able to get the ballpark...oh..yeah, RG's presets might help ;)

PPS:
My friend was suggesting that guitar players seem to get G.A.S(Gear Acquisition Syndrome) the worst...I guess it is true...I usually keep my self in check, some of my guitar friends got it bad tho...man I want that harmonizer...drool...here it comes again...

[spanglemaker]

Fukka plays two guitars that I have seen: a Fender and a 6120 Gretsch. That Bigsby on the tail end of the Gretsch makes a huge difference when you reverb and echo out....try it.

[Rollo Kim]

They did use the Evantide Harmonizer - just factory presets for those lush pulsing sounds on HOLV.

It's not the guitar itself that matters - using that kind of set-up they all pretty much came out sounding the same. Combining flanger and phaser effects will get you that swirl, with just enough distortion or gain to boost the sound, and the delay thing is a must. He also uses a Heavy Metal Pedal.

And bare in mind that they had literally dozens and dozens and dozens of rack-mounted FX: eq's, delays, mutli fx, preamps etc. So each track is going to have slightly different settings.

[Andy]

Thanks to all for your input. It's interesting to read your different perspectives to a rather loaded question. The goal merely is getting "into the ballpark" of those beautiful sounds and having some fun experimenting. Would be nice to have a resident CT guitar tech available on this forum. :)

[curetwins]

ah yes, great subject!
i am a guitarist/musician myself i play 62 jazzmaster, boss pedals mostly and e -bow.

robin plays 59 jazzmaster, 59 strat, 61 fender bass vi and gretsch 6120 aswell some customs.. effects: yamaha d -1500 digital delay, electro harmonix memory man, electro harmonix big muff, fernandes sustainer, boss pedals, overdrive, distortion, vibrato, tremolo, d'addario strings and loads more.. he also has said that he is not a fan of reverb on guitar, so he uses lots of delay to create atmosphere and texture.

i would suggest boss ch1 chorus, boss bf2 flanger and boss digital delay or the rv3 digital delay/reverb and an e-bow.. and for an amp: line 6 flextone/flextone 2 xl or roland jc 120 jazz chorus.

hope this helps..

-jeff

[ScottL]

Yeah, I bought a Roland JC120 last year...I don't play out, I got it just for my own private use in the studio...mic'ing(using a large diaphragm and a small condenser mic) that JC120 did WONDERS for my recorded guitar tone...the chorus on that amp is nice too.

If you don't mind an older harmonizer, seems the H3000(circa 1988 I think) averages $800 or ebay, they list all the eventides on www.prepal.com BTW.....a good source of ebay prices for music gear. Or just spring for a new Eclipse(w/24bit digital I/O) for a cool $2000...hehe...anyway, surely the harmonizer played a key role in that wall of sound he had in Pitch the Baby...amongst others...

One thing I also recall not yet mentioned, but alluded to, Robin said in an interview he thought pickups are more important for his tone that the physical guitar...so having some nice active pickups(EMG is a common brand: http://www.emgpickups.com/) may be helpful. They also tend to make less noise(less RF interference transmitted through the actual pickups). You can also make a cheaper guitar sound better by getting better pickups.

Since I read the 'delay instead of reverb' comment last year, I've tried to do more with delays to thicken the sound...I find it a bit tricky...this is where loads of rack equipment is nice....be careful of GAS, lest you make yourself broke...unless you got loads of expendable income/savings... ;)

[Lucibelle]

I've heard ScottL's guitar and it has a sweet, sweet sound. Jeff/Curetwins and his friend have really got the sounds duplicated very, very well! I don't know too much about that end myself. I have an Epiphone Sheridan II, and I tend to use lots of reverb on it. I know, I know.:rolleyes: I'd like to afford these toys myself. Maybe in the future. I find it interesting to hear the sound duplicated, though. It's really quite amazing!

[mmmender]

*bump*

[darakish]

thanks, mmmmm!
a very timely *bump* for me! :)

[PhillipT]

Another thing I'm sure that Robin did was play in stereo and ping ponged alot of the delays.

-Phillip

[robin guthrie]

OK .. what song?

[etc etc]

Howzabout modulated, autopanned, feedback delays (with the Polychorus knobtwisting) in Evangaline.......one things for sure, Mssr. Guthrie is light years beyond entry level ping pong action....this is a man who has elavated 'knobtwisting' to high art! Must have been all that practicing as a teenager :666: I bet his palms are hairy too!

[dannen]

guitars?!?!?!

i thought they were a synth band!!!

;-)

[robin guthrie]

Originally posted by Rollo Kim
just factory presets for those lush pulsing sounds on HOLV.


(with bill hicks voice)
I don't think so

[E-Lo]

I would like to know how the guitar sound for Pitch the Baby was constructed.

It is nearly impossible for me to distinguish the guitars(?) from the synths(?). It almost sounds like a soft organ sound is in there too. Truly amazing work Robin, and definitely my all-time favorite (next to Watchlar that is)

[ScottL]

Originally posted by robin guthrie
(with bill hicks voice)
I don't think so

Hehe...I was wondering, seemed hard to believe you'd stick to the presets....so if you happen to read this Robin, have you kept up with the newer lines of Eventide gear, like the Eclipse, or anything? Clearly they have newer technology(24 bit sampling/digital IO etc) but do you find the sound is good enough to leave the H3000 line in the dust? Or would the H3000 still have a place in your studio? Of course, maybe you've moved on from Eventide altogether?

Just curious, as I'm still itchin' to buy an old H3000SE.

[robin guthrie]

Originally posted by E-Lo
I would like to know how the guitar sound for Pitch the Baby was constructed.

It is nearly impossible for me to distinguish the guitars(?) from the synths(?). It almost sounds like a soft organ sound is in there too. Truly amazing work Robin, and definitely my all-time favorite (next to Watchlar that is)

ok.. the pulsating stuff : was my green paul reed smith guitar (cause I did most of holv with it and my '59 jazzmaster) played through a gallien kruger preamp straight into the board. this was then treated with a lexicon 480L (pitch shifted +10 cents and -10 cents to make it stereo) and delayed with a yamaha d1500 in sync with the bpm of the track.. next the fun bit .. I inserted a drawmer ds201 dual noise gate over the stereo guitar and triggered it externally from click track playing 16th notes... then I rerecorded the track back from tape through a cry baby wah-wah which I moved manually (Ie with my hands) ..

next: the clean guitars - same guitar through a tom sholtz rockmodule preamp into the board, a little roland dimension d and same yamaha delay....
and the bass was a '57 precision played through a nomad bass box.....

sorry not to be more specific...
oh, and there are no synths....

[E-Lo]

:jawdrop: Wow!! That is absolutely amazing – for years was convinced you used some synths on that.

Thank you very much for sharing and clearing that up, Robin!!!
:blush:

[andylama]

Originally posted by robin guthrie
(with bill hicks voice)
I don't think so

:clap: I do appreciate seeing people quote Bill Hicks. He was a tragicomic genius, and probably appreciated more in the UK than in his native USA.

Good to see you visiting the group, Mr. Guthrie. Best wishes to ya.

[PhillipT]

Heaven Originally posted by robin guthrie
OK .. what song?

Ok 'Heaven or Las Vegas' and 'Squeeze-Wax'.

-Phillip

[dannen]

Originally posted by robin guthrie
oh, and there are no synths....

damn. the myth dispelled.

next thing you know someone's going to try to say that Flock of Seagulls didn't actually have a horn section.

[Phil Lawton]

Originally posted by dannen
damn. the myth dispelled.

next thing you know someone's going to try to say that Flock of Seagulls didn't actually have a horn section.

Although I think at least one member of Soft Cell had actually been inside one.

[dannen]

I shudder to think Phil.

[Phil Lawton]

Originally posted by dannen
I shudder to think Phil.

Happy to be of service, youth.

[robin guthrie]

Ok 'Heaven or Las Vegas' and 'Squeeze-Wax'.


heaven or las vegas
As said before, for that whole album I mainly used the Paul Reed Smith and my 1959 Fender Jazzmaster although for that song I played a customised Levinson (a blue jazzmaster shaped one with a chandler maple neck) for the slide solo..
The clean guitar parts were the Paul Reed Smith played through a Marshall 9000 series tube preamp directly into the board with my fave Lexicon pitch shift +10/-10 cents to spread the sound to stereo, followed with a little Roland Dimension D and echo from the TC2290, synched to the bpm, the chorus, more distorted guitar part was played through my Gallien Kruger preamp (channel 2) then the same sort of treatment, tweaked differently..I should have said before but I normally would compress the guitars to tape either with a Urei1178 or a pair of dbx 160x's...oh, and usually lots of double tracking...
Simon played bass on that one, I can't remember which bass exactly (probably one of his precisions) but I think he played it through a rocktron bass preamp which was a favourite at the time

squeeze wax
strummy acoustic guitars, not fun to record at all but I was playing at that time one of a handful of acoustics none of which are particularly sexy, a black yamaha, a washburn 12 string and a red charvel flattop - my fave acoustic is a custom made kinkade brothers (made for me in 1995 for victorialand by the kinkade brothers in Bristol - where russell fong learned his craft) though I'm pretty sure it wasn't that one. I do know, however, that all the acoustics would be doubled or trebled then compressed to thicken the sound.
The sort of funky guitar is a 1959 Fender Stratocaster played through a Tom Sholtz Sustainor and then into the board with a touch of all the same stuff I wrote in the last paragraph.. the fast tremelo guitar sound was created in the mix with a noise gate......
S'funny I remember all the pre-rehab recording as if it were yesterday and the later stuff is a little more vague. I blame the sobriety....
Most of that equipment is still in my studio just waiting for an opportunity to get used but, to be honest, when I play through those things it sound so.. cocteau twins that I tend to avoid it...
save it for a rainy day, I suppose....

ok, next questions must be about different albums...

[Synesthesia]

How about the equipment for the song High Monkey Monk? I love the guitar sounds in it. They are so pretty.

[PhillipT]

Thank you for the replies Robin.

ok, next questions must be about different albums...

'Blind Dumb Deaf'
'The Spangle Maker'
'Blue Bell Knoll'

-Phillip

[etc etc]

S'funny I remember all the pre-rehab recording as if it were yesterday and the later stuff is a little more vague. I blame the sobriety....

Yeah, I've had a similar experience in sobriety...pretty fucking funny though, another of lifes paradoxical experiences.

Thanks for all the info Robin it really shines some light into all of our techno geekdom...here I was all along thinking the bubbly guitar part in Squeeze Wax was the Boss VB-2, but you did it with a noise gate! Very interesting, I always loved that fast wobbly, bubbly tremelo part in that tune........So, since the VB-2 is somewhat rare and a pedal you have gone on record as loving, could you identify some places where it shows up in your songs?

[robin guthrie]

Originally posted by PhillipT

'Blind Dumb Deaf'


-Phillip

OK The recording of Blind Dumb Deaf was a little different to most of the later Cocteau Twins songs as it was our first album, we were studio newbies and didn't have the time or experience to experiment at all during the recording process. I wasn't really the producer (I didn't even know what a producer was at that point...) so all the work on guitar sounds as such was done before the band entered the studio from playing gigs and gathering what equipment we could.. Garlands, the album, was essentially recorded live in the studio with myself and Will playing together and Elizabeth overdubbing a few vocals later, very much the way most bands record..my guitar setup was this : a Kawai KS-11-XL electric guitar followed by an Electro-Harmonix Big Muff Pi, a Watkins Copicat tape echo (3 button model), an Electro-Harmonix Clone Theory and then into another Watkins Copicat tape echo (4 button model) - this went into my amp, a Maine combo (60w 2x10 never seen one since..) . The bass was a Rickenbacker 4001 played through a Ibanez UE-400 Multi-Effects unit into a carlsbro stingray bass combo..
There was one disappointment at the time which was the drum machines that we used at that time, a Boss Dr Rhythm and a Soundmaster SR88 played through the distortion channel of a HH IC100 combo were deemed unsuitable by the engineers and ivo (the grown-ups) and were replaced with the "more proffessional' (at the time as it had just been invented) Roland TR808... This made the drums sound very clean but weak, lacking the power that we were used to in concert.. I mean the stuff we used sounded way more like (what became) hiphop than electronic. But in spite of the lack of distortion on the drums the Garlands sessions were a pretty accurate recording of how we sounded at the time when we played live....

okay doke?

[Phil Lawton]

Guthers

As you're in, I'm having some problems mastering a track.

We're using quite a range of frequencies, from a very "sub" synth bass pedal sound (a la Moog Taurus) to acoustics. The basic sound is fine, but the bass pedal sound and the acoustic are clipping when we master it.

We're using a "T-racks" software package to master with, if that's any help, using a light compression setting.

Any suggestions, big boy?

[PhillipT]

okay doke?

Ok, Thanks!

How about your setups/gear used for 'Imperial' or V.I. recordings?

-Phillip

[Phil Lawton]

I'm genuinely moved enough to raise my head above the parapet and nominate young Guthers for the "Man Of The Week" award.

Thanks again, Robin.

[robin guthrie]

Originally posted by by the sea
ok then.

what about 'a kissed out red floatboat', robin?

it really fucks me up emotionally.

pretty please.

I think I know why I don't answer you. it's the times font.. but I'll make an exception this once.. a kissed out red floatboat...ok.. no synths, it's all guitars and smoke and mirrors...the sort of synthy percussive sound that runs all the way through and is all on its own in the intro is a bunch of filtered delays triggered from the drums. I used a lexicon PCM70 for this..(same with the 'synth' rhythm thing on blue bell knoll)....the filtery pulsating wah sound which appears from the choruses to the end, well the exact guitar I can't remember but the jist of the sound is a triggered gate, triggering 16th notes from the metronome output of the sequencer, an emu sp1200, then wahed....the four guys in anoraks who always used to stand in front of my pedalboard and take notes and photos during the set (and nudge each other and look smug when I made a fuck-up) will know that I replicated this sound live using the same gate (a drawmer ds201) and an akai mpc60. The wah was a roger mayer customised crybaby....the acoustic guitar in all probability is my kinkade as mentioned in another answer, probably treble or quadruple tracked, compressed, delayed....The little riffs at the end of the verses were played on a fender electric 12...the sweep sound which crops up now and again is my broken (and I will never get it fixed) boss bf2 flanger...(broken as it goes into a very destructive oscillation if you wind the feedback up all the way - I have a couple of others which don't)....
okaydoke?

[kookaburra]

Are you ok, bts?

Someone get the smelling salts!

[etc etc]

Robin, you glorious genius! Thanks for giving all of us techno geeks some throbbing wood......I would have never guessed that the 'synthy' runs in both the BBK title track and Floatboat were delays triggered by the drums with a filter on them....that is amazing because I would never make the connection on both of those tracks that the drums are the synth part too--just treated, (I will be playing them asap now to try and hear the link)....Is the Fender 12 string electric the guitar that looks like a Jazzmaster but has the 'hockey stick' headstock?....I saw someone playing one the other day (maybe in the video my brother made me sit thorugh at the holiday of Clapton playing a number at George Harrisons tribute concert at Roayl Albert).........anyways I remember thinking that the Jazzmaster with 'hockey stick' headstock is one fucking sexy looking freak guitar....you still have yours? If so, would you slide down my chimney and place it under my tree for Christmas? I'll leave cookies 'n milk for ya! Promise!

[Avninder]

Robin, if you have not already answered this, are there any synths on Blue Bell Knoll? If so, what songs? The reason why I ask is because so many people assume you use synths in conjunction with the majority of your songs and I find it really interesting to find out otherwise. You really are a sound genius!
With lots of love,
Avi

[keefy]

Robin --

Any bizarre drop tunings or is everything in ordinary standard tunings?

and my song request -- "My Truth" (I'm fascinated with the sounds on this track)

tx
Keefy

[Maneco]

Originally posted by robin guthrie
I think I know why I don't answer you. it's the times font.. but I'll make an exception this once.. a kissed out red floatboat...ok.. no synths, it's all guitars and smoke and mirrors...the sort of synthy percussive sound that runs all the way through and is all on its own in the intro is a bunch of filtered delays triggered from the drums. I used a lexicon PCM70 for this..(same with the 'synth' rhythm thing on blue bell knoll)....the filtery pulsating wah sound which appears from the choruses to the end, well the exact guitar I can't remember but the jist of the sound is a triggered gate, triggering 16th notes from the metronome output of the sequencer, an emu sp1200, then wahed....the four guys in anoraks who always used to stand in front of my pedalboard and take notes and photos during the set (and nudge each other and look smug when I made a fuck-up) will know that I replicated this sound live using the same gate (a drawmer ds201) and an akai mpc60. The wah was a roger mayer customised crybaby....the acoustic guitar in all probability is my kinkade as mentioned in another answer, probably treble or quadruple tracked, compressed, delayed....The little riffs at the end of the verses were played on a fender electric 12...the sweep sound which crops up now and again is my broken (and I will never get it fixed) boss bf2 flanger...(broken as it goes into a very destructive oscillation if you wind the feedback up all the way - I have a couple of others which don't)....
okaydoke?

The Bf2 trick can be replicated on your other flangers by turning the feedback trimpot inside...i have the schematic and service manual,if you need it..i even built a couple of clones,one of the bf2 and other of the hf2,because i read in an old guitar player that you used them both...also the noise gate triggered by drums was the first fx box i built in my life...inspired by you,too...just a transistor that shorted the signal to ground ,with a condenser to smoth the decay,triggered by an old korg preset drum machine,that had trigger outputs in 16th...also,Garlands inspired me to improve the drums,by buiding some analog drum tones generators,controlled by a counter and rows of switches...1989...

My suggestion regarding fx boxes is the quadraverb 2,the algorythms are user programmed,you can stack delays and modulation fx,and route feedback signals from any point on the chain...i have two of those...my preset #1 is called "Fuel Ambience",inspired by Mr Guthrie production on a Mini Lp by Fuel...

[Maneco]

...And one of these could also be useful...roflmao :guitar:

(just a joke)

[Clayton39]

Originally posted by Maneco
...And one of these could also be useful...roflmao :guitar:

(just a joke)

Hey Maneco... I was going to buy one of your loopers before... still may. You still handing out nano-looeprs with 32 seconds?

I say you should keep the BF-2 around Robin, self oscillation is on the up and coming... every kid that knows how to turn a trim pot will be all over it soon, you could be the ambassador for the next generation of self oscillating tone geeks. Most of the current pedal makers are even trying to incorporate this into their new effects(see Boss DD-20)... but it always ends up sounding cheap and tacky, and altogether fake(Once again, see Boss DD-20, Line6 DL-4). Noone should try to replicate the chaos of self oscillation... unless its actually self oscillation.

[Maneco]

Hi Clayton...i did not want this post to be a plug for my machines,i never thought somone would new about them here before...but yes,one of my models is Nanolooper32...
And thanks for your concepts...Robin Guthrie sound made me become a guitar player and fx designer and builder,and i continue that line of exploration on my designs...

[e-bowflows]

An E-bow is a must!

[Outofspace]

I am a guitarist and also learnig drums, synths, bass and everythink that has to do with sound...
I really would like to discuss with somebody about the sound of Cocteau Twins.
I admire Robin Guthrie not only as a guitarist, but generally for his ability to create atmosphere!
Can anybody tell me if the cords played over the loop in 'fifty - fifty clown' are a guitar or a synth? I believe that everything is played on a guitar...

[dprid]

I can't answer definitively, but yes, the vast majority was guitar. It's worth trying a search through this forum because this subject has been raised before and Robin has supplied a few responses from time to time (very complicated muso stuff - way over my head most of it!)

[Outofspace]

Can you tell me were the responses of Robin are?

[dprid]

This one (http://www.cocteautwinsforums.com/showthread.php?t=570) covers some ground, or try this search (http://www.cocteautwinsforums.com/search.php?searchid=2860) and troll through the posts.

[ScottL]

Except for the little Rhythm pulsing thing, yes, Simon actually confirmed that those chords which sound almost like a keyboard are a guitar played by Simon run through a Harmonizer I think. I haven't looked for the links just yet..it was a long time ago.

[ScottL]

Except for the little Rhythm pulsing thing, yes, Simon actually confirmed that those chords which sound almost like a keyboard are a guitar played by Simon run through a Harmonizer I think. I haven't looked for the links just yet..it was a long time ago.


Ok found that search here:
http://www.cocteautwinsforums.com/showthread.php?p=4733&highlight=clown#post4733


A long post about misc stuff, it is down toward the bottom...SR played the guitars which sound like keyboards in his words...I add the part about the harmonizer, though it certainly has that sound, probably pitch detune as well(+/- 15 cents L/R)..but just guessing..

PS: He also was mentioning playing the high Real bass in that, I like how it stands against the low synth bass(repeating quarter note)...it has a nice effect on, very subtle with all the swirling stuff it gets masked in...had to go pop this song in and listen...what a great sound this tune has, I still love it

[Mo Safder]

OK .. what song? Oh yeah! This has become my favorite thread!! Let's see then, how about Violaine, Need-Fire and/or Flock of Soul.

[DREXER]

All of this might not make sense if your not experienced in understand what you're hearing when it comes to guitar affects.

Just by this...(attachments) and read up about it on DIGITECH's web site. http:/www.digitech.com/

Digitech and DOD are the best brands. Don't get Boss. Boss is generic and crappie sounding.

[DREXER]

I've heard ScottL's guitar and it has a sweet, sweet sound. Jeff/Curetwins and his friend have really got the sounds duplicated very, very well! I don't know too much about that end myself. I have an Epiphone Sheridan II, and I tend to use lots of reverb on it. I know, I know.:rolleyes: I'd like to afford these toys myself. Maybe in the future. I find it interesting to hear the sound duplicated, though. It's really quite amazing!

It's called a Digital Loop Sampler.

[chased]

I'm curious to know what Robin's set up was during the Head over Heels era, I love that long wailing guitar on hitherto.

[DREXER]

I'm curious to know what Robin's set up was during the Head over Heels era, I love that long wailing guitar on hitherto.
Long delaying reverberating work of attractive sounds with feedback.

[DREXER]

This has to be the best thread ever!

[frarn]

Probably cos it's about PA's?? ;)

[DREXER]

Exactly

[frarn]

Exactly


:D

[dprid]

Guitar porn is very popular on this site. Personally it does nothing for me :(

[DREXER]

Guitar porn is very popular on this site. Personally it does nothing for me :(

You don't play an instrument, do you?

[dprid]

You don't play an instrument, do you?
Nope. I played trombone a bit when I was at school but as neither I or my family liked my practicing I gave it up. I often think it's a pity I did - I think I would have enjoyed being in the brass section of a good Rhythm & Blues band.

[DREXER]

Nope. I played trombone a bit when I was at school but as neither I or my family liked my practicing I gave it up. I often think it's a pity I did - I think I would have enjoyed being in the brass section of a good Rhythm & Blues band.

RIGHT ON!!!

My first instrument was the bone in third grade, played as first chair in Symphony and our Symphony won third in the state of California. Now I play in the Bakersfield Jazz Ensemble. Along with all of the other shit that I've mentioned that I do.

[chased]

Long delaying reverberating work of attractive sounds with feedback.

So he uses reverb? I thought he didn't use reverb.

[DREXER]

So he uses reverb? I thought he didn't use reverb.

That's what is used for long drawn out sustain. Reverb is created with a blended type of delay.

[chased]

That's what is used for long drawn out sustain. Reverb is created with a blended type of delay.

So the reverb is where the sustain comes from? is that what your saying? I don't know anything about effects really. All I have is a Ibanez stereo chorus pedal.

[DREXER]

So the reverb is where the sustain comes from? is that what your saying? I don't know anything about effects really. All I have is a Ibanez stereo chorus pedal.

Like the sound sustains longer in large rooms. Accept for the affect of an unnaturally long sustain or just making the music sound like you're in a large room, when you're playing it anywhere.

Chorus is a flange that originally was created when playing the same recording of an instrument in two separate real to real players and slowing down the length of the note and speeding up the tape players that alternates between the two.

[frarn]

I think reverb and sustain are different things, drexer dear friend.

reverb fills the sound, sustain lengthens the sound in terms of time the sound can be heard.

I remember old guitar amps that had "spring reverbs" (but I have no technical knowledge of how these worked - I just know that they were HEAVY and made peculiar noises if you banged them with your fists!).

Reading the posts from Robin in this thread, I think he obtained sounds through the use of delays applied over and over again which sound to the ear like reverb but which are subtly different, whereas reverb when applied to extremes can introduce feedback????

Are Flanger effects created by applying the played notes of the guitar (or other amplified instrument) over the top of a slowly modulating carrier wave which creates a gentle "swooshing" and changing nature of the final sound?

but then again I'm not an expert so please don't shoot me down in flames ....

[DREXER]

I think reverb and sustain are different things, drexer dear friend.

reverb fills the sound, sustain lengthens the sound in terms of time the sound can be heard.

I remember old guitar amps that had "spring reverbs" (but I have no technical knowledge of how these worked - I just know that they were HEAVY and made peculiar noises if you banged them with your fists!).

Reading the posts from Robin in this thread, I think he obtained sounds through the use of delays applied over and over again which sound to the ear like reverb but which are subtly different, whereas reverb when applied to extremes can introduce feedback????

Are Flanger effects created by applying the played notes of the guitar (or other amplified instrument) over the top of a slowly modulating carrier wave which creates a gentle "swooshing" and changing nature of the final sound?

but then again I'm not an expert so please don't shoot me down in flames ....

Reverb is the delaying layers to mimic the sound of being in a large room it creates the sound of a long sustain.

[etc etc]

Drexer, is your avatar a penguin approaching the speed of light?

[DREXER]

Drexer, is your avatar a penguin approaching the speed of light?
Good imagination. It's Liz with colors that seem to fly away from everything around you.

[etc etc]

Ahhh yes, can see her now....I still can't shake the high velocity penguin image though!

[DREXER]

Ahhh yes, can see her now....I still can't shake the high velocity penguin image though!
Ha ha ha! LOL :lmao:

[wedgewedge]

hello,

i noticed nobody had been here for a minute...

im going crazy trying to find out what kind of guitar was use on "suckling the mender." it sounds like the same guitar... if you are familiar with the siouxsie song, "cannons," off of, "tinderbox." sounds like a 12 string electric, but...?

thanks!

[fornasetti]

OMG - you brought Drexer back !

But hello and welcome !

[Fritter]

hello,

i noticed nobody had been here for a minute...

im going crazy trying to find out what kind of guitar was use on "suckling the mender." it sounds like the same guitar... if you are familiar with the siouxsie song, "cannons," off of, "tinderbox." sounds like a 12 string electric, but...?

thanks!

I don't recall which track you're referring too - hopeless with CT titles - but generally speaking it's a Hell Of A Lot of FX processing - could be 12-string, could be double-tracking; only one forum member really knows for sure...

[wedgewedge]

hey, and thank you for the welcome!

its track 7 on blue bell knoll that im talking about. my guess is that it isnt double tracking as ive heard that exact guitar elsewhere.

[Fritter]

I know that R. Guthrie is a big fan of the accoustic guitar made by the Kincade brothers of Bristol. I don't know whether it's a 12-string or just a lot of effectitude.

(I must say I rather miss Drexer's electrical style of posting)

[ScottL]

hey, and thank you for the welcome!

its track 7 on blue bell knoll that im talking about. my guess is that it isnt double tracking as ive heard that exact guitar elsewhere.

I am familiar with the sound you are referring to, I am not sure what it would have been made with though. I'd be very interested as well in knowing, I've always wondered about that too, as I totally love that song, it is one of my faves.

[wedgewedge]

weeellll, i guess forget the previous question. does anyone know about the guitar sounds on blue bell knoll? in my opinion, the best cocteau twins album... right behind holv. that album sounds like someone finally realized it was time to put some money into the recordings and do it right.

[djproject]

Guitar porn is very popular on this site. Personally it does nothing for me :(

You don't play an instrument, do you?

Nope. I played trombone a bit when I was at school but as neither I or my family liked my practicing I gave it up. I often think it's a pity I did - I think I would have enjoyed being in the brass section of a good Rhythm & Blues band.


so, guys ... i heard you got caught playing with your instruments during band practice

[Red Star]

so, guys ... i heard you got caught playing with your instruments during band practice

:lol:

[randomrob]

did someone say DREXER?! :omg: