Anti Milk & Kisses Bias

[Andy]

Anyone out there crazy enough to agree with me that Milk & Kisses is the height/pinnacle/summit of CT's art?

The subject might be old hat for some -- we all know mmmender can't bear to listen to er, a certain great track on the CD -- but let's have some of the newer members weigh in.

Interestingly, Guthrie said Seekers was the standout track and that he was amazed by Liz's vocals -- it also happens to be the greatest CT tune.

Best,

Andy

P.S. Ok, for the sake of argument, let's forget about that "Rilke" tune being included on this otherwise perfect work.

[Phil Lawton]

Andy

I must exclude myself from this thread on two counts:

a) I'm not a newer member and

b) I've had my turn fighting "M&K"s corner.

Go for it lad!

[Lucibelle]

I love Milk and Kisses, but I will not say it was their pinnacle of anything. I was fortunate enough to have been a fan since their earlier days. I have experienced the anticipated arrival of several albums. Victorialand was such an interesting sound. I thought, "how could they ever top that?" Treasure was such an interesting sound. I thought, "how could they ever top that?" Blue Bell Knoll was such an interesting sound. I thought, "how could they ever top that?" Four Calender Cafe was such an interest....... you get what I'm getting at.

This band has had such a wonderful way of ever changing and evolving their sound, all the while keeping it very distinctly Coctear Twins. By the time Milk and Kisses came out, I had stopped asking myself "how could they top that?" and had come to expect that they would. I was thrilled with Milk and Kisses! And actually, some of that thrill was due to the fact that because it was so wonderful, the next release could be counted on to instill that wonderful sense of musical bliss! But of course, we all know what happened next. :(

I think that every album that they have ever done has been a pinnacle of their work in some way, but knowing their history, I know deep down it was not their ultimate pinnacle. I think had they kept on going for another 20 years, we STILL would not have seen the reach that.;) I think they had a unique way of knowing how to keep climbing.

[stratton]

I'm not a newer fan but I couldn't resist this thread. Some of the opinions I have on the different albums have only become clear as time goes by. I guess that's the beauty of such a canon of recorded work.

I will agree that the BBC version of Seekers is one of the highlights from that era. It's one of my favorite live performances; I even like it better than the album version. However, I can't agree that Milk and Kisses, as a whole, is the pinnacle of the band's studio work. For me it's post-peak...just over the crest. The cohesive whole of BBK, HOLV and FCC just isn't quite there. I certainly don't think it's bad because I do enjoy it. And it really shined much more in the live setting. I think they were at their live peak on that tour and the music(past and present) translated like never before.

For me the last great hurrah/pinnacle of recorded work is Four Calendar Cafe. The production is simply perfection. Robin crossed over on this one. He achieved what many artists rarely do. The lilly fully bloomed. The guitars, effects and vocals blend better than ever. The songwriting is incredibly strong. Tracks like Bluebeard, Squeeze Wax, Summerhead and Pur are Cocteau Twins at their blinding best. Incidentally, most(if not all) of these tracks were recorded right before Robin and Liz had their respective cleanups/breakdowns. The rest of the album sounds like it was recorded during the comedown/hangover from that incredible high. For anyone that has ever experienced the height of a drug binge then you know what I'm talking about. The songs are soft and tentative, yet crystalline and clean. The amazing amount of personal sentiment evident in the lyrics is the icing on the cake. We always wanted to know what Liz was saying and here it is; wounded, aching, heartbroken and yet alive and unashamed. That was their greatest moment for me and is the one I keep coming back to again and again and again.

[Phil Lawton]

Yeah, Stratton, thanks for coming out of hiding.

How's Monica?

[mmmender]

mmmilk and kisses...............i'm keeping mmmy mmouth shut.;)

[stratton]

Phil, who is Monica? I don't know anyone by that name.

[ScottL]

Hehe...well Stratton wasn't in on the last M&K/FCC discussion, so thanks for the input...monica isn't real, tv show...just ask Phil in return 'how's dave?' ;)

I guess it is the vocal passion or something that does it for you all on that BBC seekers, I just don't really get into it, but it isn't my favorite song anyway, I do think it makes a fine finale to M&K though.

[mmmender]

...it isn't my favorite song anyway, I do think it makes a fine finale to M&K though
well said scott!

[Phil Lawton]

Stratton

I take it you didn't see my post for you in the "Cocteau Fan Lookalike" thread.

Do you actually make chains?

[pauln]

the beginning of ups is the most perfect moment i've ever heard

[stratton]

Hehe...I just saw that Phil. You are not the first person to say that about me. I also get Robert Downey, Jr. on occasion. I think it just depends on the way I turn my head. Go figure! ;)

[Phil Lawton]

Stratton

I'd imagine the Robert Downey Jr likeness is even more striking if you turn your head in a downward fashion towards a line of white powder.

(Kids, don't try this at home)

[mmmender]

Originally posted by by the sea
phil, i love you ~

i saw him first!!!!!! :D

[Phil Lawton]

Girls, form an orderly queue........

[mmmender]

well seeing as bythesea has a penis.....do i get to go first?

[Phil Lawton]

And second, Lees....oh and third, fourth, etc.

[Phil Lawton]

B

Should I ask for clarification or just leave well alone?

[Phil Lawton]

I await it with trepidation and a degausser.

[Phil Lawton]

with anxiety and a neutralized magnetic field? is that what your saying?

S'about the size of it.

God bless you, B, for these meandering conversations.

[Phil Lawton]

Would £5 do?

[Phil Lawton]

Spookily apt.

[mmmender]

Originally posted by by the sea
p.s. there have been 69 posts since my last visit.

i was born in the summer of 69.
brian adams has nothing on me!

[someotherian]

Originally posted by by the sea
sometimes i actually don't have a penis. this is very rare though
it's that thing where you stick it between your legs and pretend to be a woman.. am i right? ;)

[glint]

That's what I would've guessed, but.....


A friend of mine has a bias toward M+K because they think that Treasure Hiding sounds too much like Pur. What a dumb reason to be biased :rolleyes:

[stratton]

Originally posted by someotherian

it's that thing where you stick it between your legs and pretend to be a woman.. am i right? ;)

LOL! I'm going to cackle about this one all day. ;) Stratton

[steven]

Originally posted by glint
A friend of mine has a bias toward M+K because they think that Treasure Hiding sounds too much like Pur. What a dumb reason to be biased :rolleyes:

I have to confess I think the twins ripped themselves off with Treasure Hiding. The middle of the song sounds too much like the live version of Pur to me.

Steven

[Lucibelle]

Originally posted by someotherian

it's that thing where you stick it between your legs and pretend to be a woman.. am i right? ;)
Nahhhh! He's gotta be talking about the infamous "Gender Bender"! :D

[glint]

The songs do sound a bit similar, but that's no reason not to listen to the whole album (as my friend does). Incidentally, she likes Minor Threat, that CD where you can flip through and listen to a snippet of each song, and not hear a difference at all! Weird.

[mmmender]

Originally posted by glint
The songs do sound a bit similar, but that's no reason not to listen to the whole album (as my friend does). Incidentally, she likes Minor Threat, that CD where you can flip through and listen to a snippet of each song, and not hear a difference at all! Weird.

i'm sorry but that's just fucked up.........i mean i'm definitely a skipper when it comes to listening to cd's.....i go through my faves skipping the less desirables......but to actually buy a cd that only plays snipets is just plain bizarre!

[iceblink]

I know I am a little late with this thread, but since I am a new listener (relativley speaking) I thought I would add my input. I love Milk and Kisses, but it is not my favorite. Seeker is an amazing song however. And the BBC version is amazing also. I just love the lyrics. And her voice is amazing too, I think that is the song that she just let go and belted it out like there was no tomorrow. I don't think it is the best artwork, I like it, but I love the artwork on their earlier stuff.

I feel like such an amatuer on this forum, everyone knows all the songs titles. I only know a few, but I think I have listened to each song about a million times. My friend who first introduced me to them would always jokingly say that my obsession was just a phase when I first started listening to them. Well, this is a fricken long ass phase!!! I think the thing that enables me to listen to them incessantly without getting bored is the fact that I always hear a word I hadn't heard before or something in the music that I hadn't head before. It is so layered that it would take a million years to peel them all back and see each one individually.

Well that's my opinion anyway........

[stratton]

and that's a great opinion iceblink. ;) stratton

[zed]

don't worry.........we're all going through an extremly long "phase" also!
not to worry..........just sit back and let the music take you....
everything else follows eventually.

:cool: :) Z.

[mmmender]

iceblink i think we're all still awestruck by the music which is what feeds our obsession. i warn you now - it only gets worse! thanks for sharing your opinion.

[Phil Lawton]

Ice (Ice Baby)

Buy a cabinet now....Mmmmmmmmmmender's not kidding.

[dprid]

Most music ages and you tire of it. It seems however that for many the Cocteau Twins music simply doesn't age and you never tire of it. I suspect that because there are so many layers to it that even though some of it is 20 years old, you can still hear new things in it every time you listen.

Perhaps hearing is a little like your taste buds - as you get older they change and you start to appreciate things you absolutely hated as a kid (except brussell sprouts of course - still hateful). Maybe as your hearing deteriorates with age you get to hear new things because you can't hear whatever was blocking it as clearly.

[Lucibelle]

Iceblink, you've come to the right place. We understand you here. We don't look at your obsession as a bad thing or a strange thing, as many of our friends and family do. This is our little 'happy place', where we can get together, and share our feelings about Cocteau Twins.

Now, who wants to share?

"Well, I...um, started to listen to the Cocteau Twins back in '93. You know, just a little bit here and there, like at parties and stuff, but nothing serious. Um.... uh......."

There, there now. It's ok.

"Um...... well, ok. You know my friends, well THEY only listened to them once in a while. You know, like make tapes with one or two of their songs on it between some other bands, but I........ I........"

We're here for you.

"I.... I COULDN'T STOP! Before I knew it, I wasn't just listening to them at night or on the weekends, I was listening to them when I woke up, in the afternoons, at work, after work! Sometimes even at the dinner table! Then my friend, uh...'Bob' found my stash! He asked me, 'What IS this stuff?' and.... and... I told him. Cocteau Twins!"

.........and then what happened?

"I don't know. That was two weeks ago, and I haven't left my stereo since!"



The cure is far worse than the disease in this case. Trust me! ;)