Prozac: Cocteaus Music Depressing?

[mmmender]

mentioning the smiths in another thread got me thinking about so called 'depressing' music.....i often wonder if people would categorize cocteau twins music the same?

MELANCHOLY maybe, but depressing? i should hope not.

ah yes time for pedantics.....those lovely terms like slowcore, sadcore (my personal fave).............the smiths, red house painters, american music club, mark eitzel, low.....ring a bell? or should i say toll a bell?

[mmmender]

Frankly, Mr. Shankly, this position I've held
It pays my way, and it corrodes my soul
I want to leave, you will not miss me
I want to go down in musical history

Frankly, Mr. Shankly, I'm a sickening wreck
I've got the 21st century breathing down my neck
I must move fast, you understand me
I want to go down in celluloid history, Mr. Shankly

Fame, Fame, fatal Fame
It can play hideous tricks on the brain
But still I'd rather be Famous
Than righteous or holy, any day
Any day, any day

But sometimes I'd feel more fulfilled
Making Christmas cards with the mentally ill
I want to live and I want to Love
I want to catch something that I might be ashamed of

Frankly, Mr. Shankly, this position I've held
It pays my way and it corrodes my soul
Oh, I didn't realise that you wrote poetry
I didn't realise you wrote such bloody awful poetry, Mr. Shankly

Frankly, Mr. Shankly, since you ask
You are a flatulent pain in the arse
I do not mean to be so rude
Still, I must speak frankly, Mr. Shankly

Oh, give us your money !

[mmmender]

"And if a double-decker bus
Crashes into us
To die by your side
Is such a heavenly way to die
And if a ten-ton truck
Kills the both of us
To die by your side
Well, the pleasure - the privilege is mine"

[watchlar]

cocteau twins...depressing? nah...sigur ros (although i love them) are extremely depressing...surprised that Phil likes em since he hates FCC LOL J/K Phil

Watchy

[Lucibelle]

No, I don't see their music as depressing. (with the possible exception of the Twinlights CD)

I think you said it right with melancholy. It does not invoke a happy happy, joy joy mood, nor does it make you want to bang your head, dude! Nor does it want to make you dance all night. It is mood music, but I think the mood it envokes would be more akin to a gentle contemplation of thoughts within. It effects everyone a little different, yet to those who connect with it, they share in common the sweet flavor of their music. Sweet, but not sacharrin. More like a juicy red apple! :D

[Phil Lawton]

Watchy

Leesa isn't the only person here that I can threaten to spank...wait...strike that.

Oddly, I find Sigur Ros quite uplifting - I offer track 4 of "( )" as evidence, m'lud.

"Svefn G Englar" is such a soothing track that I refuse to believe that it could bring anyone down (apart from Leonard Cohen).

My wife thinks that Radiohead are suicide prompters - again, I find lots of their material quite joyful. Paradoxically, "Let Down" from "OK Computer" is, to me at least, inspiring and has the same effect on me that "Bluebeard" seems to have on other folk.

The tracks I downloaded by Godspeed You Black Emperor and Explosions In The Sky are also despised by the present Mrs Lawton, but I am transfixed by them each time I hear them and feel good for the experience.

[zed]

....depressing?

some are, in a strange wistfull, sad way, others are quite joyfull. i find a full range of human experinace behind the cocteau's music.

that's why i love it so...it speaks to my humanness.
and NEVER talks down to me. people i've known, who shall remain nameless, found lou reed to be quite a good time! while finding the twins a downer.

i think it's in the willingness of the listener to place they're feelings in the hands of the group, or for that matter , the director/ sculpter..........to trust enough that you open yourself up to what is being said to you. some people just want the corprate template. others like you and me.....we gotta work! LOL!!

when it pays off....it pays bigtime.

like i was gonna say......depends on where you start from.


:) Z.

[someotherian]

all i know is that 'depressing' is one word that i have never thought of associating with cocteau twins music.

but i know different people have different ways of hearing and reacting to things. i suppose it's all about where the music takes you.

[dprid]

I was happy in the haze of a drunken hour
but heaven knows I'm miserable now
I was looking for a job, and then I found a job
... and heaven knows I'm miserable now

In my life
Why do I give valuable time
To people who don't care if I live or die?

Two lovers entwined pass me by
And heaven knows I'm miserable now
I was looking for a job, and then I found a job
And heaven knows I'm miserable now

In my life
Oh, why do I give valuable time
To people who don't care if I live or die?

What she asked of me at the end of the day
Caligula would have blushed
"You've been in the house too long" - she said
And I (naturally) fled

In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?

I was happy in the haze of a drunken hour
but heaven knows I'm miserable now
"You've been in the house too long" - she said
And I (naturally) fled

In my life
Why do I give valuable time
To people who don't care if I live or die?




I liked The Smiths (my era I guess) but some of their stuff, mostly the later recordings, was just too down to listen too repeatedly. Having said that, 'Girlfriend In A Coma' is almost the perfect 2 minute pop song, and 'Please, Please, Please, Let Me Get What I Want' & 'Reel Around The Fountain' aren't far behind.

Actually, writing this prompted me to go and grab a CD off the shelf and stick it in the player. I'd almost forgotten just how many bloody good songs they produced. And who (who saw it) can forget Morrissey on Top Of The Tops in his maternity blouse & NHS specs waving his gladioli around :D

[mmmender]

Originally posted by dprid
I liked The Smiths (my era I guess) but some of their stuff, mostly the later recordings, was just too down to listen too repeatedly. Having said that, 'Girlfriend In A Coma' is almost the perfect 2 minute pop song, and 'Please, Please, Please, Let Me Get What I Want' & 'Reel Around The Fountain' aren't far behind.


david, i'm with you mate!! i loved the smiths, especially 'please, please, please' what a fantastic song that is......i also loved all the remixes and the singles (i've collected loads of them)....great artwork too......all round amazing band!

Originally posted by dprid
Actually, writing this prompted me to go and grab a CD off the shelf and stick it in the player. I'd almost forgotten just how many bloody good songs they produced. And who (who saw it) can forget Morrissey on Top Of The Tops in his maternity blouse & NHS specs waving his gladioli around :D

LOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!! "fame, fame, fatal fame, it can play hideous tricks on the brain, but still I'd rather be famous than righteous or holy, any day any day, any day!"

[zed]

......heresy time folks................................
i never liked morrissey........not even a bit.
lyrics were nice, band was amazing!!.........but.....
i just can't get passed that persona. somebody clue me in.

please don't throw stuff......i'm willing to learn, ok?
:(

Z.

[Phil Lawton]

The Smiths rool, dude!

Woddya wanna know, daddy-o?

[zed]

......ok.....he said, taking his life in his hands.......

carefully....right. the music, i understand.... fine, fine band....
ok?.... but what, was the appeal of the morrissey thing?
to my ears, he came across as pretentious, and to sly by half.
his voice to me.., seemed to have the range and emotional appeal of a large sheep. now....i'm willing to admitt i'm wrong here....just explaine the appeal.
was it, as i suspect, an english thing?...or, after years of real major misery, al la the velvets and lou specificly..........
did he just come off as a bit of a fake?

did you need to be of an age?

give me something to grab here....if i get some insight, i might find a way to learn to dig them as others do....
there Phil, i've just given you enough ammo to blot me off the face of the earth,........mercy.
zed.:)

[mmmender]

the smiths for me changed the face of music as i saw it back in the early 80's. in my world at the time there were two bands one of which was the smiths and i'm sure you can figure out who the other one was. their so-called 'depressing' lyrics to me were ironically refreshing. this was the 80's and i was sick of being spoon-fed candy-coated lyrics about youth. sure other music offered 'rebellion' but i grew out of punk along with my flannel pajama's. i wanted more and i found it in the smiths. you mean they've got shit to say and they can actually play their instruments? count me in!

what i found most amusing was how the smiths never really made it big in north america until the band broke up.....after that morrisey's solo efforts were sucked up like nobody's business......young impressionable (read depressed) teens couldn't get enough of his horn rimmed holiness. me on the otherhand....never saw the appeal of morrisey sitting solo, he knew his audience too well by that point and performed (and continues to perform) for them to this best of his abilities just short of wearing a monkey outfit and catching peanuts in his claws. more power to him though for making the dosh now that he and the smiths should've made long, long ago.

"heaven knows i'm miserable now"

[glint]

ever hear the Autumns do "Please, Please, Please..."? Nice!

[Phil Lawton]

The Smiths music will always be, I feel, distinctly British. The sense of humour and irony in Morrisey's lyrics made more sense if the listener hailed from Birmingham, Manchester or Derry, for instance.

"Reel Around The Fountain" is painfully charming and typifies the band's whole catalogue for me. "Panic", "Sheila Take A Bow" and "Shoplifters Of The World" were a great finale.

I have to agree with Lees - Morrisey tries, God love him, but his best days are never coming back, although I did think "We Hate It When Our Friends Become Succesful" was his one shining moment.

[mmmender]

well i'm not from manchester but i am from derry.......but i can say that i've always understood the tone and wit that morrisey plays with so perfectly through his clenched-tooth drones.....that's what got me hook, line and sinker!

i think that this is one of the best songs ever written, the lyrics kill me every single time!!

the headmaster ritual

Belligerent ghouls
Run Manchester schools

Spineless swines
Cemented minds

Sir leads the troops
Jealous of youth
Same old suit since 1962

He does the military two-step
Down the nape of my neck

I wanna go home
I don't wanna stay
Give up education
As a bad mistake

Mid-week on the playing fields
Sir thwacks you on the knees

Knees you in the groin
Elbow in the face
Bruises bigger than dinner plates

I wanna go home
I don't wanna stay

Da-da-da ...

Belligerent ghouls
Run Manchester schools

Spineless bastards all ...

Sir leads the troops
Jealous of youth
Same old jokes since 1902

He does the military two-step
Down the nape of my neck

I wanna go home
I don't want to stay
Give up life
As a bad mistake

Please excuse me from gym
I've got this terrible cold coming on
He grabs and devours
He kicks me in the showers
Kicks me in the showers
And he grabs and devours

I want to go home
I don't want to stay...

[Phil Lawton]

Genius.

[mmmender]

serious genius!

[mmmender]

oddly enough 'how soon is now' was my least fave smiths song, i think it suffered from being over played to death. then those other freaks got a hold of it.......hmm can't remember their name now but they sampled the arse off it in that horrid song 'hippy chick' - i nearly died when i heard it.

[mmmender]

yeah i remember hearing it for the first time.........it was good........but they have done better.......as i mentioned before 'headmaster ritual' is a seriously brilliant tune!

1984? fuck was it that long ago.....hmm i was only 2 :p

[zed]

...ok Phil............tell me which smiths album is considered the best by most, and i'll try again. i promise.
IF.......... you'll try "the fall"......."extricate."

deal?

Z.

[Phil Lawton]

Z

Their debut album.

But make sure you get the re-mastered version, of which I have five copies.

[zed]

....Phil.............

'tis done.
i'll get back to you on this.

you KNOW i will too.:cool

Zed.

ps.....remember....the fall, exricate.

sing harrpy!!! lol!

you'll understand soon!!
Z.

[dynamine]

"well i wonder" is my favorite Smiths song.that one gets me
everytime.:(

[mmmender]

Well I wonder
Do you hear me when you sleep ?
I hoarsely cry
Oh ...

Well I wonder
Do you see me when we pass ?
I half die ...
Oh ...

Please keep me in mind
Please keep me in mind
Gasping - but somehow still alive
This is the fierce last stand of all I am
Gasping - dying - but somehow still alive
This is the final stand of all I am

Please keep me in mind
Well I wonder
Well I wonder
Please keep me in mind
Keep me in mind
Keep me in mind

[mmmender]

"unruly girls
who will not settle down
they must be taken in hand"

fuck what an amazing song 'barbarism begins at home' is....listen to it again for the first time!

[watchlar]

the Smiths bore me to tears...i'm probably in the minority on this one...I always thought they were a little pretentious

[mmmender]

i think many people saw the smiths as pretentious so you're not alone in that sentiment. i don't want to sound crass here but i think phil made an important point when he said "The sense of humour and irony in Morrisey's lyrics made more sense if the listener hailed from Birmingham, Manchester or Derry, for instance." to me this played an important role in the popularity of the smiths in north america (as i mentioned in a previous comment). when the band broke up and the smiths as a whole weren't there to 'gang up' on the american ideal, the music of morrisey was much more approachable (digestable) by westerners. either that or your taste just lies in yer arse watchy (lol i'm kidding of course!!!);)

[dynamine]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mmmender
[B]Well I wonder
Do you hear me when you sleep ?
I hoarsely cry
Oh ...

Well I wonder
Do you see me when we pass ?
I half die ...
Oh ...
]
thanks alot :(

or
when you lay in ah on the bedroom floor
and say
oh smother me mother

[Lucibelle]

oh smother me mmmender! :D

[dynamine]

Originally posted by Lucibelle
oh smother me mmmender! :D

that too:D

[ScottL]

Shoulda known I was missing a good music discussion by skipping the prozac thread until now...just haven't had time...so I've only been reading select threads...
I love the humour in Headmaster's Ritual and the guitar esp. it really demonstrates the Roland Jazzchorus amp sound that he used...I love that...I'm sure alot of the british humour escaped me...but aside from that, I though Morissey was a tiresome bugger with that kill-me-now sound in his voice...pretentious too I guess. I love the guitar though, that square-wave tremolo effect on the guitar opening "I am human" has been used in some other dreadful tune, "Hippy Chick" or something...oh dear...

[dynamine]

ScottL, was the song "hippy chick" done by SOHO?if it was,
i can't believe i remembered that.LOL!:D

[watchlar]

Originally posted by mmmender


1984? fuck was it that long ago.....hmm i was only 2 :p


Right...........

;)

[curetwins]

i have always felt connected with sad/depressing music.. and i feel there are parts of ct that bring up those emotions.. then again, i suffer from depression...

-jeff:) :(

[curetwins]

don't forget the brilliant MOGWAI!!!!!!

[mmmender]

Originally posted by watchlar
Right...........;)

ok i lied.....in 1984 i was actually 15:eek:

[Baba O'Reilly]

Prove it!

[someotherian]

not sure why you need proof christian, but take my word for it... she was.
you damn young people! :)

[mmmender]

christian - i was born on june 12, 1969 in derry city, northern ireland to parents bridie and raymond - it doesn't get any truer than that i'm afraid..........unless of course you need a scan of my birth certificate!!??!! ballerina

[Phil Lawton]

I remember when I first saw my birth certificate. Under "name Of Father" it said "Some soldiers".

[Baba O'Reilly]

Thanks mend, I shall tease you no more.

[mmmender]

DAMN! ;)

[randomrob]

cocteau twins? depressing? pffffffftbtbtbpt:p

[Baba O'Reilly]

But mend, I'd thought you be relieved!

[Phil Lawton]

Christian

Masochism takes many forms, mate.

[Baba O'Reilly]

Philip

Does it? I would be interested for you to expound on your thesis.

[Phil Lawton]

Christian

Masochism is a strange beast.

The commonest form (or the most widely known form) is the physical. Sexual gratification is usually involved, although not as part of the infliction of pain. The sexual relief is most often procured AFTER the process of being hurt, the majority in the form of masturbation. Sometimes (but not always) linked to sadism, physical masochism is normally seen to be part of one half of a relationship's need, along with the desire/need to be dominated. The balance is the tendency for the other person in the relationship to be the dominant figure (and this is not restricted to the male), who will, in all likelihood, take on the role of sadist.

Emotional masochism is a very subtle psychological condition; needs can range from violent verbal abuse to gentle teasing, both in and out of a sexual relationship/practice. For instance, the use of abusive language during sex; light bondage and being made to wait for sexual fulfilment. Again, the masochist must have a fellow protagonist to act in the sadist role.

Anything else I can do for you?

[Phil Lawton]

And just in case anyone's wondering, I have a friend who has masochistic tendencies, along with a need to be dominated.

The stories she's told me would make your pubes turn straight with fear. She actually put herself into a very dangerous situation last year, which scared the crap out of me.

Oh, BTw, it's no-one on these boards (unless she's using a pseudonym I don't know about). I'm fairly sure she'd think "Cocteau" was some strange sexual game.

[Baba O'Reilly]

Oh. And there was me thinking I was just being innocently playful rather than being masochistic....?!?!?!

[Phil Lawton]

Christian

You were the sadist in the exchange with Leesa. Er...I'll stop there....

BTS

I know someone who'll do it for a fiver.

[Baba O'Reilly]

P

Ahh, if only, but I must protest. I was merely being innocently playful.

[Phil Lawton]

Christian

Like I said originally, masochism comes in many forms.

[Baba O'Reilly]

Maybe, but darned if it's anything to do with me.

[Phil Lawton]

B

You amuse me quietly - although I don't type the old "LOL" in here much, you make me chuckle on a regular basis.

Did Simon Guthrie take you up on your slave offer yet? He may well give you a good kicking for free...he IS Scottish, after all.

[Baba O'Reilly]

Just going back on topic for a mo, all this talk of 'depressing' music reminds me of Tindersticks and Leonard Cohen....

It also begs the question as to how one can derive any sort of joy from that which is depressing.

[Phil Lawton]

Christian

With you all the way on Leonard Cohen.

Yes, it's strange, but it is all a matter of perspective - my eldest lad thinks that Sigur Ros, CT, Lush and Radiohead are all depressing. I'll give him some latitude with Radiohead, but can't see where he's coming from with the rest.

That said, he's into rave music, which makes me suicidal.

[Phil Lawton]

B

To use a line of Mike Myers', the Scots have their own martial art, called "Fuk Yu". It involves a lot of head-butting and kicking people when they're on the floor.

[superblast]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
Yes, it's strange, but it is all a matter of perspective - my eldest lad thinks that Sigur Ros, CT, Lush and Radiohead are all depressing.

see, i listen to the music i listen to because it has a positive effect on me. some of it, throwing muses, the smiths, is 'depressing' in tone and lyric but i really enjoy listening to it. for this reason it doesn't make me sad it makes me happy. it's the same with good non-lyric music like cocteau twins and sigur ros while some of the songs are sad in tone they make me happy because i absolutely love the music.

bad, bad music like creed is what i would find depressing so i don't listen to it.

good music isn't depressing for me. i would like to say though, having mentioned this band above, that throwing muses and kristin hersh lyrics are the most intense, tormented lyrics i've ever heard.

well, it made sense to me... ;)

[superblast]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
The stories she's told me would make your pubes turn straight with fear. She actually put herself into a very dangerous situation last year, which scared the crap out of me.

c-r-a-z-y.... i'd just like to say that i don't get this. pain hurts. i don't like it. there's a really, really big difference between pleasure and pain.

:confused:

[ScottL]

I was discussing with friend the conditioned behavior we seem to have in regard to music....certainly slow and fast has some direct implications in how it affects us...but things like feelings associated with major(happy),minor(sad),diminished(scary), and augmented(just plain wrong ;) ) chords(to name but a small few) seem to carry a weight of learned behavior. He suggested often 'childrens' music reinforces this cultural influence. It is even dominated by major chords...hmm...it could be....I think there is an explicit effect from noise level tho, things like speed, loudness and noise all seem to be something that we connect to elevated heart rate etc...but whether that comes off as positive boost or something that makes you aggitated or nervous I think does still depend on a learned predisposition.

That said...people seem to have biases in this regard. Personally, I try to let go of those things(not always with success). It does vary whether I am in the mood for up or down music...but when I am into down music, it isn't sad or depressing....it is soothing, calming, and thus very stimulating or even cathartic on a certain emotional level. I've also had times where music which was 'down'(people said it would put them to sleep for instance) would make me feel more alert....I used that one time driving at night...I popped in Enya's Watermark, which I was still in to at the time, and glided down the road feeling amazingly focused though I was quite at a lack for sleep.

Down music put out by people dwelling on learned (sad) cultural behavior is depressing to me, people trying to tap into their emotions however is not. I don't "know" when that is the case, but eventually I "feel" it..same goes for happy music...I'm not down on happy music...I'm down on very unimaginative unstimulating learned cultural behavior posing as happiness....

[superblast]

Originally posted by ScottL
but when I am into down music, it isn't sad or depressing....it is soothing, calming, and thus very stimulating or even cathartic on a certain emotional level.

i understand exactly where you're coming from... well said.

very interesting post.

[zed]

Scott................

bravo!
very nicely said, just a bit nebulous,(hey, i'm into nebulous!)
but the conculsion was prefect!:D :D
i couldn't agree more!
Z.

[randomrob]

I was in bestbuy the other night buying an ink cartridge and I came across the smiths' 'meat is murder'......... as much as I used to like that album in college........ I still ended up replacing it in the rack and left instead w/Louis Primas greatest hits.

[zed]

RR........seems you've replaced prozac with expresso!
louis was anything but depressing!! great choice!
is there lots of cool old stuff on it? i woulda loved to have seen him and the full act back then....vootie!!



Z:)

[mmmender]

:bump:

[renoir]

I can only say having gone through some rough patches that the Twin's music caused me to cry many times but not tears of sadness but ones of joy and hope and love because I knew that no matter the circumstances , if the last thing I were ever to hear was Liz's angelic voice then life surely was worth it.
ballerina

[Ian]

I never found the Smiths depressing as such.I think alot of fans forget the humour in the lyrics.I think the charm with the Smiths,is that they can ultimately make you laugh and cry at the same time.I can identify with the fact that I'm a sociopath as Moz probably once was.The music is melancholy however.Johnny Marr "had" a knack of finding that "blue" note."Back to the Old House" for example.
The Cocteau Twins sounded like music descended from the heavens.Which can't be a depressing thing.Nuff said.

[Ian]

Originally posted by glint
ever hear the Autumns do "Please, Please, Please..."? Nice!
Ever hear The Dream Academy do "Please,Please,Please instrumentally?".Amazing.

[watchlar]

again i would say Introspective...not depressing...FCC is my "process album" that helps me get in touch with those feelings that are too painful...

depressing never...

[Clayton39]

September Please Take This Heart Away - Carissa's Weird

"This room has so many windows, too many windows,
Ive sat and watched the trees fruit fade outside,
I hope the seasons treat you well,
I hope the seasons treat you kind,
as kind as I never was,
as comforting as I never could be

I saw two fake long stemmed roses on the windshield of a car,
September come please take this heart away

All of those windows bring in the cold air,
Ive hope youve had the climb to keep you warm,
warmer than the last time we spoke,
warmer than the last words we said,
I'm sure the wind blows terribly on you now,
I hope that nothing will ever remind you of me

Glue that faded photo on a worn out, turning page
that reads september come please take this heart away"

Its tragic to the brink of corniness... but I love it

[Clayton39]

So you want to be a superhero? - Carissa's Weird

"There banging on the wall,
its five am, Ive got no sleep at all
with thoughts of how I might,
struggle through tomorrow

Too much time, in one day,
theres too much time to occupy,
with boring thoughts,
and boring moods,
and boring bedtimes

Wont tell a single sould that my soul's gone,
its hard to write this song,
itas all a joke,
its all been wrote down by someone whos probably dead

I might be leaving soon

There laughter from below,
its 1 am,
how could you have known,
the thoughts and silence that keep me from going back to sleep at night,
wish I could call someone I love,
to stop thinking of myself,
one look in the mirror,
just to stare so blankly

you were right,
I cant do this,
I'm going crazy,
its mindnumbing,
now you can see how much Ive become empty

I might be leaving soon

My dreams are full of what not real,
I'll fly away and save the world,
I'll make you proud one day,
I just wont be around to see your face

My life is full of whats not here,
I'll go away and save myself,
I'll make you proud someday,
I just wont be around to see your face"

[Clayton39]

Underground - Nina Nastasia

"Fly away,
you know cause I'm afraid,
of every little thing that makes me think of you

Your'e so serene,
underneath the weeds,
your'e watching me trip in my saddle shoes

Parachute me down, to that cold cold underground
save me, save me

Quiet now,
Its time to say a prayer,
God is near, they say hes watching you

Parachuting down, to that cold cold underground
save me, save me

I believe, shhhhhhh
I believe, shhhhhhh"

The song is actually very cheerful, but the lyrics sting

[Clayton39]

The She Died - Janes Addiction

"Now her paints are dry,
and I looked outside,
to the corner boys, yeah
hey ho, where did they go?
I dont know

I went to see her pictures,
I spread them across the floor,
So this is where they are shown,
now theyr'e probably saying to you,
"if you keep it up, you'll be born"
but you wont ever listen,
I bet...

burnt out, grass scorched by the sun
the buildings remain,
we will beat them all to dust,
I bet...

Pulled from a headless shell,
that blinked on and off "hotel",
now the nameless dwell,
they will hold your key and turn your knob,
I bet...

Will you say hello to my ma?
Will you pay a visit to her?
She was an artist just as you were!
I'd have introduced you to her,
she would take me out on sundays,
we'd go laughing through the garbage,
she'd repair legs like a doctor,
on the kitchen chairs we sat on,

she was unhappy just as you were,
she was unhappy just as you were,
unhappy just as you were"

A song written by Perry Farrel and Dave Navarro about both of their mother's untimely deaths. I have always assumed the end was a plea from Perry Farrell, to Dave Navarro's mother... which just chokes me up every time, as Dave Navarro's mother died a bit later.

[multymfoiled]

The Universe - Sarah Slean

Once I took the universe to dinner
When she failed to yeild the earth's demands
'Oh,' she said 'you mean that little ant farm?
I'm alright, dear, I've got other plans'

And we're sad because we think we don't belong here
We're guilty 'cause we think we should be stars
Floating in a navy soup, we're sailing
There you are
There you are

She's so bright
And then she's gone
Don't mind me
I'm just sailing
On a sunrise
It's my favourite thing
And when are you
Going to realize
I don't blame you
I never have

And when she talks, she fills the room with sunlight
She can name her babies, every one
I've returned to the place of my beginning
And I can see her turning off the sun

And we're sad because we think we don't belong here
We're guilty 'cause we think we should be stars
Floating in a navy soup, we're sailing
There you are
There you are

She's so bright
And then she's gone
Don't mind me
I'm just sailing
On a sunrise
It's my favourite thing
And when are you
Going to realize
I don't blame you
I never have


Taps into my tear ducts every time....

[fornasetti]

CT music depressing ? Not for me ! It's one of my remedies for the stresses and strains of life. "Twinlights" might be depressing to some, but for me it's beautiful.

I also listen to Leonard Cohen, Tim Buckley, TMC and it doesn't bring me down.

There was a time, however, when I was using Starsailor's "Love is Here" album to get over a break-up. That wasn't very clever, as I used to play it over and over, getting increasingly pissed and singing more and more out of tune. I still enjoy it, but it's never going to be a "happy" album for me.

[dprid]

How can something I love so much ever be depressing. Hearing something, indeed anything by CT always cheers me up :)

[Ghosty]

Originally posted by dprid
How can something I love so much ever be depressing. Hearing something, indeed anything by CT always cheers me up :)
My thoughts exactly, Mr. Dprid. Although I have found that it can remove some emotional barriers when one's already depressed. CT music, especially the Treasure era stuff, can move me to tears sometimes because of it's sheer artistic beauty and as such help me deal with more personal stuff on a subconscious level.
I cry, I feel a bit better.

[Ian]

Originally posted by ScottL
...
and the guitar esp. it really demonstrates the Roland Jazzchorus amp sound that he used..

I thought he was using Fender Twins by then.I could be wrong.I know Johnny said in an interview that he hated the guitar sound on the debut,no thanks to the JC120.

[Jeek]

The ultimate song of hopelessness...

The Cure - 100 Years

It doesn't matter if we all die
Ambition in the back of a black car
In a high building there is so much to do
Going home time
A story on the radio
Something small falls out of your mouth
And we laugh
A prayer for something better
A prayer
For something better

Please love me
Meet my mother
But the fear takes hold
Creeping up the stairs in the dark

Waiting for the death blow
Waiting for the death blow
Waiting for the death blow
Stroking your hair as the patriots are shot
Fighting for freedom on the television
Sharing the world with slaughtered pigs
Have we got everything?
She struggles to get away . . .

The pain
And the creeping feeling
A little black haired girl
Waiting for Saturday
The death of her father pushing her
Pushing her white face into the mirror
Aching inside me
And turn me round
Just like the old days
Just like the old days
Just like the old days
Just like the old days

Caressing an old man
And painting a lifeless face
Just a piece of new meat in a clean room
The soldiers close in under a yellow moon
All shadows and deliverance
Under a black flag
A hundred years of blood
Crimson
The ribbon tightens round my throat
I open my mouth
And my head bursts open
A sound like a tiger thrashing in the water
Thrashing in the water
Over and over
We die one after the other
Over and over
We die one after the other
One after the other
One after the other
One after the other
One after the other

It feels like a hundred years
A hundred years
A hundred years
A hundred years
A hundred years
One hundred years

[zed]

......i listen to "orange appled" or "squeeze wax" and i just wanna DIE. roflmao


Z.

[andylama]

Trying to analyse CT music with a dispassionate ear, I'd describe much of their stuff as:

Spooky, mysterious, melancholy...but never depressing.

Some tunes (Zed mentioned good examples), Summerhead, Iceblink, HOLV...are downright ecstatic!

[ScottL]

Originally posted by Ian
I thought he was using Fender Twins by then.I could be wrong.I know Johnny said in an interview that he hated the guitar sound on the debut,no thanks to the JC120.

I don't know, I couldn't find out...I'm not a big Smiths fan, but the sound on The Headmaster Ritual sounds spot-on like a JC-120 to my ear. And my friend had mentioned that he used it, I actually haven't heard much else by them. But for 'Meat is Murder', it was only 85, pretty early in their career. So who knows...

After reading your post I looked around. Two items I found, in 1990 he said he still had a Jc-120 in the studio:
http://foreverill.com/interviews/post87/antihero.htm

The one you mentioned appears to be here:
http://foreverill.com/disc/smithslp.htm

He did mention it sounded great to the player but failed up front with a hole in the sound, so it may have been his primary amp then(on the debut album), and he may have phased it out gradually or just used it when he wanted that sound. Now I wonder, either way, when I hear Headmaster Ritual i think of the JC-120, and moreso than anything else on Meat is Murder, btw. So I'd guess he may have used it part time on that album...maybe someone else here can verify this...

About the amp itself, it isn't a versatile amp, but personally I found the clean tone inpirational as a player. In the studio or for practice, I just find it fun to play and hear the way it sounds. When I first got it and plugged it in, I sat and played for an hour, it was very fun. Now, if money weren't an object, I would certainly have other amps for other uses, but for now I get alot of use out of it. Certainly, some amps certainly will smear the sound no matter how you use it, but aside from that, it depends very much on how you use it...I think this is true with the JC-120. Though there are limits to its use, ultimately I want to have a nice tube stack to go next to the JC-120. I have really tried out that many types of amps for myself, so I may have defaulted on a certain sound. I dunno...

[ScottL]

Originally posted by zed
......i listen to "orange appled" or "squeeze wax" and i just wanna DIE. roflmao

Oh yeah, I love that bass guitar tone on Squeeze Wax...delightfull...I never cared for Orange Appled, though I think it has potential, kinda like 'Crushed' it has one part in the middle I really love...


Originally posted by andylama
Some tunes (Zed mentioned good examples), Summerhead, Iceblink, HOLV...are downright ecstatic!

Yeah, Iceblink Luck and Bluebeard both give me a joyous sensation..just listened to both this morning, still there...

[johncool]

Hmm... Cocteau Twins' music depressing? I don't think so (well... except perhaps most of the songs of "Victorialand").

The Smiths are quite another story. I consider most of their songs depressing (being my favourites "Please, please, please..." and "There is a light that never goes out") and that's why I like them so much.

This Mortal Coil's music is also very depressing stuff.

But Cocteau Twins...? Nah...

[Jeek]

Have to agree with most here. Sometimes it is introverted & introspective, sometimes uplifting, always emotional, but never depressing.