Mark Feb 10th On Your Four Calendar Cafe!!

[mmmender]

THE NEW COCTEAU TWINS RESISSUES ARE COMING!!!!!!

"Well, after a long long wait, we finally have a release date for the four Cocteaus reissues. Four? you say. Yep, just four at the moment - Heaven or Las Vegas and Blue Bell Knoll will stay as they are, at full price. However, Garlands, Head Over Heels, Victorialand and Treasure will all be reissued, remastered, in the UK only (US to follow later in the year) on February 10th" Jo, 4AD

what does this mean? it means new artwork, new package designs, tracks remastered by mr. guthrie himself......WOOHOO! (dunno about catalogue numbers for the collector freaks reading but i've already asked and will post a reply when i get one)

ok i know it's not like we're getting to hear new cocteau twins material or anything but this is pretty damn exciting for me. hurray......we get to buy the same cds all over again LOLOLOL!!!!!!!:D

[crushed]

(1) Feb. 10th will be my son's 3rd birthday. Now I know what 4 gifts he'll be getting from his pop...:D

(2) I agree mmmender, it is really exciting, even though we all have these albums already. I say this because the versions that are currently out on CD do not sound nearly as rich as the vinyl versions, and also because the remastered songs on 'stars and topsoil' were so obviously improved from the original issues. The first time I listened to it, I heard things I hadn't noticed in hundreds of listens previously.

So, yeah, it's cool....

[Lucibelle]

M-M-M-M-M-ust...... h-h-have... n-n-n-n-new...... C-C-C-C-C-Coct-t-teau... T-T-T-T-Twins.... C-D-D-D-Ds!!!!!

M-M-Must..... s-s-s-speak..... in...... sh-sh-short......, ch-choppy...... s-s-s-s-sentences!!!!








:rolleyes:

[someotherian]

Originally posted by crushed
Feb. 10th will be my son's 3rd birthday.
that date is also my son's birthday so it's already marked on my calendar. well, not literally but you know what i mean!

and it's also my dad's birthday, but i have to say i pay less attention to that. (don't ask. 'it's a family thing'...)

anyway i will be lookng forward to those new releases. and i'm glad about the new artwork, it will make them more worthwhile IMHO.

[crushed]

O.K., so which of the 4 remastered albums will have the most sonic impact on CT fans? I hope "Victorialand" will be the most striking.

[Phil Lawton]

So...remixed, new artwork, but nothing new musically. Hmm...why is it that the words "ploy", "cynical" and "marketing" spring to mind?

Just looking at the track listing of "Pink Opaque"...oh, hey...."Millimillenary" only appears on this compilation, which is why I bought it....why do the words "ploy", "cynical" and "marketing" spring to mind?

[watchlar]

well...i think it's a good idea....some CT albums are mixed horribly in my opinion. I would like to hear what they sound like. I know this is compromise of artistic integrity to say this but...I wish HOLV would have it's percussion tracks re-recorded...with FCC power percussion...HOLV just sounds tinny to me sometimes...i know i'm gonna get slammed for that one...oh well

[iceblink]

New artwork!! I am so amazed by all the artwork they have on all their albums. I would buy the albums again even if they only had new artwork. I am actually thinking of turning an album cover into a textile print for a project I am doing for school. ( I am a fashion design major). Quick poll, what album cover or part of an album cover would you like to see as a textile print?

[Phil Lawton]

I would buy the albums again even if they only had new artwork.

4AD 1, Fans 0

And now the weather...........

[stratton]

The re-issue thing does seem like a marketing ploy but it really isn't just that. I think the idea came about with the remaster of the tracks for Stars and Topsoil. All the stuff pre-BBK was transferred to disc back when the technology was pretty piss poor. Some of the layering and fullness was lost to the bad analog to digital transfer. You really are better off listening to your vinyl on a good technics 1200 as opposed to those discs. With the re-issues everyone without this kind of high end setup will be able to hear the songs as they were originally recorded and intended. I'm still not clear on the new artwork thing. That just seems blasphemous in a really bad way. Poor Vaughan Oliver...or is he doing the new artwork too??

[simon raymonde]

personally i wouldn't get too excited about 'new artwork'...maybe you should have 4AD clarify that slightly?

[Phil Lawton]

Thanks, Simon.

4AD 1, Fans 1 (subject to steward's enquiry)

[mojo]

weird, the board wont work in Netscape.

anyway, I just wanted to register and clarify about the reissues and the artwork. All the four reissues will feature the same artwork, but it will also have metallic backgrounds. It works pretty well, and hopefully I can try and get some scans, but its not brand new artwork, as was suggested here.

This will be the first time for these albums at mid price as well, so they will move to the GAD prefix rather than the current CAD one - everything else will stay the same.

have a link to the original thread I posted on the 4ad boards, but hopefully that'll clear up a few bits

jo

http://beggars.bway.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=6351

[ethereal]

Phil, with respect to your comment about the pink opaque and having only added 1 track (but what a track and how important in the band's history as Simon told us all a long time ago) TPO was meant more as a break-in album for the USA since imports were harder to get in the 80's i guess and get more attention to the band...i'd be interested to hear how different the reissue sounds from the originals. maybe i won't be able to hear the difference?

[mojo]

another quick note, I've added the reissue information, plus small scans of the artwork to the 4ad online store. If you go to www.4ad.com and click the shop link, and select Cocteau Twins from the drop down menu, you can compare sleeves - old scans vs new.

hope it gives you some idea how they're gonna look - Head Over Heels looks so much more like the vinyl, and a lot nearer to the colour my copy is from back then!

[Phil Lawton]

Eth

Whatever....it still held the carrot of a track unavailable elsewhere to the true CT fan.

I'll give you another example - the boxed set. Full of stuff that your average CT-type already owned...so how do 4AD ensure that the aforesaid CT fan bought it? Great idea!! Put a couple or three tracks in there ("Crushed", "High Monkey Monk" and the instrumental of "Oomingmak") that are either of limited availability or not available elsewhere. If this wasn't an exercise in getting CT fans to pay £50 and upwards for one single, then I don't know my own name.

Don't kid yourself that 4AD are doing you, me or the rest of the good folks here a favour. They'll have been scanning this and every other site to get the lie of the land before planning this remaster/re-artwork jobbie. It's just a shame that they can't issue something of real worth, like the legendary DVD, rather than letting Leesa struggle to get the stuff to the real fans.

I hope Mojo and her homies at 4AD realise that there's at least one pissed off CT fan who is deeply uneasy about the label's motives. "Mid-price" for a metallic background and a few sonic tweaks here and there? Do they really think we're that gullible?

Are we?

Well, I'm going to register my vote with my wallet - the day I buy these "re-issues" will be the same day that Satan goes to work on ice-skates.

[mojo]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
They'll have been scanning this and every other site to get the lie of the land before planning this remaster/re-artwork jobbie.

ohh that's sooo not true! the people at 4ad don't even have the time to check their own message board let alone this one - I get time to look here once a month maybe, absolute tops, unless there's any Cocteaus related news happening! It isn't anything to do with timing it when it suits the fans - a lot of these releases are in the process of reverting back to 4ad worldwide (as is also the case with the Pixies next year) so its a decent enough reason to get cheaper stock out there (as will happen with the US who will reissue it later in the year) that stay true to the originals.

It's just a shame that they can't issue something of real worth, like the legendary DVD, rather than letting Leesa struggle to get the stuff to the real fans.

That's something I can't talk about, for reasons which may or may not become obvious in the future, but reading your comments on a previous thread, it sounded like you hated that idea too - bear in mind there's only the one person in backcatalogue - and that's covering all the Beggars Group labels - so things don't happen as quickly as is hoped, but then some things do happen quickly. I know this project has taken two years.

Well, I'm going to register my vote with my wallet - the day I buy these "re-issues" will be the same day that Satan goes to work on ice-skates.

that's cool - thats another thing - nobody is forcing anyone to buy the same records again!

hope that's cleared that up!

jo (off back to talk to ma homies)

[Phil Lawton]

Jo

nobody is forcing anyone to buy the same records again!

You reckon? You really think that this "won't force" the die-hard fans to fork out some more cash? PLEASE. If you read these pages (even a tiny fraction of them), you MUST know how the fans feel about the material.

Sorry, I refuse to believe that you don't know how eager CT fans are to spend yet more money on "that one last thing" to complete their collections. If you didn't, then why on earth go to the trouble of releasing them in the first place?

Jo, we've bought these from you once - this is akin to buying a Rolls Royce for £100,000, only to have Rolls phone and say "Hey, we'll be 'round tomorrow to make the engine sound better and re-do the paintwork....but we won't charge you full price it'll be more like mid-price."

It's also interesting to note that the pieces of my post which you chose to quote didn't include my references to "Pink Opaque" or the boxed set. I wonder why?

I can't influence 4AD's marketing strategy - that doesn't mean I have to like it.

[mojo]

I didn't mention the Pink Opaque or the Box Set because I don't see what relevance they have to the first four albums being reissued. Sure, had the Pink Opaque been repackaged, and then reissued then kick up a fuss. But it hasn't and the fact they've existed, isn't really relevant to these releases.

But if you look at any artist for any catalogue anywhere in any record company, you'll see that at some point in that albums lifespan its likely it will be moved to mid-price and repackaged slightly. It depends on how you look at it. Yeah, sure, a few hundred people may go and buy it again, but at the same time, would you keep the albums in their old formats, when Robin wanted them remastering and the extras on the first two albums removing before they were put to mid-price? Its always going to happen to albums, and if anything, be thankful its not Warners or someone else like that doing this, cause I'm sure they'd care a lot less.

Have a look next time you're out at your local store, and I bet not a huge amount of them will stock Cocteaus catalogue. Or it'll be at a stupid price (I've seen some stores stocking Head Over Heels for £15 which is way too much, but that's how these stores work, what can you do? Well you can at least make sure they'll see on the schedule that it should be a good £6 cheaper for starters). I know I've seen that in stores and wondered what planet they're on. At least with some reason to put the catalogue in stores again, at the correct price shouldn't be frowned on. If people choose to buy them again, I'm not stopping them. I'm not encouraging them either - they're there. Its down to any of us as grown adults to choose whether we want to buy them or not.

Also, on a tangent completely, previous Beggars reissues which have been in a similar vein have worked very well - early Fall albums, Bauhaus, Gary Numan, Love and Rockets.... I've seen Steve doing what has to be done with the artwork and there's been a lot of hours of care and attention (god, when v23 sourced the original artwork for Head Over Heels, and ages was spent making sure the correct part of the artwork was used for the new version - to the nearest millimetre)- check out the 4ad store and compare the Head Over Heels artwork for the current cd to the new one, then go get your vinyl from when it first came out, and see which one looks the most faithful to its original format. I think even if people on here aren't going to buy it, its what the Cocteau Twins catalogue deserves.

[Phil Lawton]

I think even if people on here aren't going to buy it, its what the Cocteau Twins catalogue deserves.

Oh, they'll buy it, Jo. 4AD are not stupid enough to release material that won't sell.

And the relevance of TPO and the boxed set is that they had a previously unreleased jewel buried in them...just enough to entice the fan to re-buy the same tracks he/she already had.

What relevance is your mention of other artistes re-issues? Look, there are fanatics and then there are Cocteau Twins fanatics. Two seperate animals.

If you honestly aren't aware of this, then I can forgive your stance on the re-issues, but am staggered and bewildered by your lack of awareness of the label's buying public.

[mmmender]

these images are direct from the 4AD online shop....

http://mailorder.almaroad.com/sleeves/4ad/gad211.jpg GAD211CD

http://mailorder.almaroad.com/sleeves/4ad/cad211.jpg CAD211CD

[mmmender]

http://mailorder.almaroad.com/sleeves/4ad/gad313.jpg GAD 313CD

http://mailorder.almaroad.com/sleeves/4ad/cad313.jpg CAD 313CD

although here i assume they mean a re-issue of......

http://www.cocteautwins.com/images/sleeve_hoh_1.jpg

[mmmender]

http://mailorder.almaroad.com/sleeves/4ad/gad412.jpg GAD412CD

http://mailorder.almaroad.com/sleeves/4ad/cad412.jpg CAD412CD

[mmmender]

http://mailorder.almaroad.com/sleeves/4ad/gad602.jpg GAD602CD

http://mailorder.almaroad.com/sleeves/4ad/cad602.jpg CAD602CD

[Phil Lawton]

Hands up if you're impressed........I said hands up...oh, you heard me?

[mmmender]

phil, i won't say that i'm all that impressed but i have to admit to you that i'm excited. let's face it i'm a collector freak so the thought of new versions/issues/whatever excites me (it really doesn't take much ya know!).

and yes i would tend to agree with you on the fact that 4AD are milking (and kissing) their customers, making them buy re-issues. because in a way we are 'forced' to buy them. let's face it - cocteau twins are not massive money makers....cocteaus have a die-hard, yet fairly small but highly dedicated fan base. they know we'll buy the re-issues....remastering them just makes them tastier! i mean, they can't expect us to believe that a now defunct band is going to become a top seller to new audiences who have never heard their music before!! yeah sure.....maybe it's all the radio play they get!! or maybe it's all the fantastic promotion 4AD does for them!

but 4AD would be stupid to deny that this is a money-making venture.....they are a business after all and last time i checked the objective of running a business was to make money....and they're doing just that....it's only good business. it doesn't take a genius to recognize a corner of a market, look in your closet and say 'hey i own that shit' and then sell it......and if you can re-package it again and again and people keep buying it then more power to you.

[Andy]

I want to raise my hand...but suddenly my arm feels verrry heavvvvy

[Phil Lawton]

Lees

Isn't that what I said? And isn't it amazing how Jo denied that 4AD were forcing the fanbase into purchasing the re-issues? Like they have no idea of the fervour that still surrounds the band?

Lees (and I'm not saying this because you're my mate and I'll apologise right here and now if this embarrasses you), I am firmly of the opinion that the biggest single contribution to CT fans EVERYWHERE in their quest for info, rarities et al has been you. No question....and I defy anyone to offer contradictory evidence.

4AD release four albums we all already have, with a bit of knob-twiddling and air-brushing and I'm supposed to fall at their feet in gratitude and give them yet more money?

No way, Juanita.

[mojo]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
And isn't it amazing how Jo denied that 4AD were forcing the fanbase into purchasing the re-issues? Like they have no idea of the fervour that still surrounds the band?

I'd say the day 4ad makes a promotional gun, complete with v23 trimmings, and Vaughn Oliver signature on the side, holds it to everyones collective heads and marches everyone down the record shops, would be the day that they'd be forcing anyone to buy anything ;)

Leesa, nice scan of the Head Over Heels vinyl - however the original print (and we've also checked it from my vinyl copy that I bought a month after release) was a lot darker, like the reissue. The problem with the scans is that the metallics don't come through very well, but it gives you all an idea anyway. The logo was changed because it doesn't come through well at all on the cd, but I'm fairly sure its one that appears elsewhere on the vinyl...

Phil, I'd hate it if you did fall at anyones feet here and feel grateful for anything, it'd feel a bit insincere - no disrespect intended, but y'know. Some things will happen. And this has. Its up to whoever wants to buy it if they want to or not, I'm not going to try influence it either way. Mainly because it'd be horribly arrogant for me to even think I could!

[Phil Lawton]

Jo

You've missed my point entirely.

[crushed]

I can't agree with you Phil, entirely. The mid price angle, the new artwork angle, that may indeed be milking it...but you are dismissing outright the fact that Robin was involved, and that remastering these discs goes beyond twittling knobs. Technology has advanced considerably, and if 'stars and topsoil' is any indication, then they will sound fantastic compared with the discs you play now. And for me, that's what is important. I'll buy anything that expands my appreciation of their MUSIC.

So, to me, this is not really a 'collector item' issue, though to each his own :)

[crushed]

By the way, in light of these reissues, it now feels, if anything, like 'stars and topsoil' was a way of milking fans. Though I'm still mainly pissed off that 's&t' didn't contain anything from 'loves easy tears' ('orange appled' excepted).

[Lucibelle]

I've gotta agree with Crushed, here. For me, anyway, it's not about the artwork, but about the remastering. ESPECIALLY since Robin was involved.

...an extra track would be nice, though. ahhhhhhhh..... :rolleyes:

[Phil Lawton]

C

That'll be on "Stars And Topsoil 2", no doubt.

[stratton]

All this is very interesting to read and think about but what it really comes down to is this: isn't Robin the person responsible for a lot of what is going on with these re-issues? I had dinner with him in London in October of 2000 just as Stars and Topsoil came out. We talked about the remastering process at length. He spent a lot of time tracking down an original working tape player in order to run the masters through his computers. He was adamant that nothing was being remixed, only remastered, in order to restore the digitally released music to the sound he planned from day one. He felt that BBK and HOLV sounded like they should and the tracks wouldn't benefit from a remaster. I think that has just as much to do with the sophistication of the 24 track recording process than anything else. Everything prior was 16 track or less.

I know he personally chose each track that appeared on S&T(Liz just came up with that wonderful title). He also wanted any additional tracks removed from these four re-issues. I think it's more about putting things right with the music than trying to rip fans off. I believe there will come a day when we get some unreleased and/or live material but it's not going to be as a combo package deal now. I plan to buy the re-issues because I will get to hear the music the way it was meant to sound. I also want to support the effort and work that Robin did to bring them to us. I am going to either trade my duplicate discs at a local record store or give them to people that I think need an introduction to the Twins. I think it's only a win-win situation. ;)

[Phil Lawton]

Luce/Crushed

You're right and this is all about personal choice.

For myself, I can't justify, either monetarily or morally, spending good money on albums I already have because the new sleeve is a bit shinier or Robin turned the drums down on "Persephone".

I should really count myself lucky that some previously unreleased track won't be included on any of the re-issues...because then I'd HAVE to buy it/them. That tactic worked with me as far as "Pink Opaque" went and 4AD know full well it'd work again on those fuckers as stubborn and cynical as I.

Oh shit....have I just put an idea into 4AD's collective head?

[Phil Lawton]

Stratton

And the profits/royalties are going to charity, yes?

[ethereal]

phil, did you say you were under the weather today too? where is sutton coldfield anyway? i understand your points about putting out new releases and how the diehard fans will always buy it...unfortunately, music is an industry. it is in their interest to make money, if they weren't in it for the money, the music would have never been distributed up until recently when the technology changed via internet, cd burning, etc. to allow people to "share". it's a necessary evil, but it isn't that evil when you think of all of the good that we've gotten from it. i however like to think that the band was different in their approach and have always wanted superb quality in the medium for their ideas. thank heavens for that. as stratton said about robin being involved and insisting on certain standards, i've gotta love robin more than i already do. i admire his pursuit of Quality (i've read zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance recently). how rare is it in this day and age to find people passionately committed to their art for art's sake alone. yes, money is involved, but we all need money to live our lives...i'm rambling, probably the onset of delerium. all in all...i'm not sure if i will buy the reissues. i'm not a collector, really. a fan, but not a collector. i'm glad for everyone's different viewpoints. it keeps life interesting....

[stratton]

The profits go to 4AD, Beggars Banquet and the Cocteau Twins, just as they always have. Trust me, Robin wouldn't be doing this without getting something out of it. He's got to eat too. I'm just glad that he decided to bring his original vision back into play. Some artists walk away from their work entirely when their band splits. Remember, the Cocteaus stole all their masters from 4AD when they left the label in '91. This might not have happened in an alternate reality.

And throughout this all no one has said anything about the fact that the stuff has got to be repressed at some point. Eventually supplies run out and consumer demand will call for a repressing. In this case we're getting a remaster as well. This is not some isolated 4AD incident. It happens all the time with any artist who has left a legacy of recorded work. Time goes by, technology advances and you have the ability to make something sound better. If Robin decides to do it again in twenty years I will probably buy those too. ;)

I have purchased HOLV five times. Two copies got lost or stolen and two I bought as gifts. Now I have two cases and one disc! I have only purchased FCC three times(my copy and two gifts) but sometimes think about buying it again just because I fucking love it so much. I imagine taking it out of the plastic wrap and pretending I have never heard it before. I'll spend the afternoon just driving around listening to it at full blast. Mmmm...what do I have planned for today? Hehe...

[dynamine]

finally! these were to come out a while ago,and yes i will buy
these.

[mmmender]

Originally posted by stratton
.....I have purchased HOLV five times. Two copies got lost or stolen and two I bought as gifts. Now I have two cases and one disc! I have only purchased FCC three times(my copy and two gifts) but sometimes think about buying it again just because I fucking love it so much.....

don't ask how many copies of holv i've got cos it'll turn your stomach! ;)

[Adam]

Phil, what's your problem?!
You say that all 4AD wants from fans is money... If it's true, why don't they release ENTIRE catalogue, with new artwork only??? Because those CDs are not REISSUES, they are REMASTERS.
If you don't know difference between reissues and remasters - it's your problem.
If you think fans care only for new sleeves or new drums sound on "Persephone" - it's your problem.
If you feel original Victorialand sounds ok - it's your business.
If you think original Garlands sounds ok - it's your business.


YOU DON"T HAVE TO BUY IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mmmender]

Originally posted by mojo
weird, the board wont work in Netscape.

i just posted this message using netscape 6 and it works fine for me!

[dynamine]

ADAM for president!:)

[steven]

Originally posted by stratton
[B]He felt that BBK and HOLV sounded like they should and the tracks wouldn't benefit from a remaster. [B]

Thanks Stratton for the info on the remastering process. This is something I have always wondered about. Listening to Stars and Topsoil I sometimes felt like I was cheating the original versions - the versions that were made at a particular historical point in the band's career. I always suspected Robin was essentially just "cleaning" up the sound, but I didn't know for sure.

To my ears, Watchlar (track, not person) benefits considerably from remastering. The echo on liz's voice is something I never heard before; I originally wondered if this was there on the original track. Yes I'm nuts.


Steven

[Lucibelle]

First, Phil, I do understand your point. Anyone who's read my posts knows how I feel about the 'industry' end of the music business. But let's remember who we're supporting. Yes, we are supporting 4AD, but look at how much incredible music they've helped bring to life! Labels like 4AD and Beggars Banquet have been the ones to feed my need for GOOD music, not the crap that passes for good.

Not to say that this hasn't happened somewhere (has it?) but I've never seen a 4AD band fill a giant stadium such as the Orlando Arena. I've only seen them play in the smaller, more intimate venues and theaters (and that's the way I like it!:p). But who knows, maybe this is just here on this side of the water. And let's not forget that we're supporting the Cocteau Twins, not the fucking Britney Spears' and N'syncs of the world. We support those jokers without even realizing it! (can you say 'Pepsi'?) If these bands, such as the Cocteaus, are going to have a small, yet loyal fan base, should not those fans show their loyalty?

Still, it WOULD be nice to hear some unreleased material.

But I do appreciate where you are coming from and respect you for your stand on this.

[Phil Lawton]

Oooh....I don't know who to respond to first.

Adam - read my posts properly. Oh, and please don't talk to me as if I hate CT. I love their music (which is why I'm here), but I don't welcome every breath, move or twitch with adulation and awe. CT were three very ordinary people, not gods - there's no need to genuflect each time their names are mentioned. 4AD can't re-release the whole catalogue because they don't own all of the catalogue, incidentally. Also, please don't speak to me as if I were an idiot - assuming everyone I speak to to be intelligent is a courtesy I extend to everyone and I expect it back. I do know what the difference is between a re-issue and a re-master. Do you understand what the difference is between a bargain and a rip-off?

Stratton - no comment.

Just a thought for everyone - cast your mind back (or go read for the first time) some of Mr Guthrie's comments about his own material. In particular, he called "Treasure" a "turkey". Now, as I said to Jo from 4AD in a mail this afternoon, you can dress a turkey in top hat and tails or cranberry sauce. In the end, it's still a turkey.

Robin has also offered less than flattering remarks about the three preceding albums (not so much with "Victorialand"). So - what is he re-mastering for? Again, I'm disturbed at his motives. Yes, he has to eat...so do I, which is why I'll be spending the "mid-price" cost on food, rather than on four albums I already own. (Oh, and, according to Jo from 4AD, the "mid-price" will be about what Bella Union are charging for the originals)

Am I on my own in this? I believe I might be.

How far do you go with it? If every band you loved re-mastered and then re-released it's back catalogue, where would it stop? Where would YOU stop? Until you'd duplicated your entire CD collection?

And there you have it....mission accomplished, 4AD!! And not a single "carrot track" in sight!! Well done!!

(P.S. 4AD types....I have a bridge I want to sell....can you help?)

[Lucibelle]

God, you're wonderful, Phil! You and I have something in common- the unwillingness to back down on something we really believe in! :D

I know I'm not going to change your mind, but you did bring up something interesting when you said how Robin's less-than-flattering comments about said albums. Perhaps, just perhaps, part of the reason is to make the improvements that would satisfy him more about these works. I know how critical I can get about my music. I'll hear things that no one else notices. "oh, that's crap! don't play that!"

Or, maybe Robin's just wanting a way to take a really ellaborate vacation this year.:rolleyes:

[Phil Lawton]

Luce

Re-mastering won't change the musical content.

I'd stay longer, but I'm still vomiting spasmodically (heavy emphasis on the "spas") and need to rest my head on a pillow.

[evangeline]

....and i will buy them all 'cos i can and it'll make me feel good, simple as that.

[stratton]

I love it Evangeline. It really is that simple.

Robin has indeed dissed Treasure. He has also said that Head Over Heels and Victorialand are two of his favorites. So go figure.

Stratton...who is now off to dinner and help E look for that dingo...LOL.

[Lucibelle]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
Luce

Re-mastering won't change the musical content.

You're right, but it will change the sound quality, and with that, you can hear subtleties that were hidden before, not to mention the improvement of the space and clarity. You can do soooooo much with audio equipment now!:cool:

I will say this, Cocteau Twins are one of the few bands I would ever do this for. I can't think of many others. Maybe two or three, but that's it.

[Phil Lawton]

Somewhere in the Louvre, a telephone rings on the desk of the curator. He answers it.

Curator: Hello, this is the Louvre, home of many paintings, sculptures and hideously expensive objets d'art. How can I help?

Caller: Pierre, this is Assistant Director Boulangere. We need to talk.

Pierre: Monsieur Boulangere. Ca va?

ADB: Enough of the french-type talk, Pierre. How much do we have in the bank?

P: Oh...er...a small fortune...but why?

ADB: You heard that they cloned Da Vinci from some semen stains in an old pair of pants?

P: I assumed it was a rumour.....

ADB: I wish. Get this - he's living in Manchester and can often be seen at the city's nightspots. Can you believe the man won a breakdancing competition?

P: No!?!?!?

ADB: Yes...I mean, breakdancing went out years ago.

P: True.

ADB: But he's working again.

P: And this affects us how?

ADB: It affects us because he's just 'phoned me to offer the museum the "Mona Lisa".

P: The " Mona Lisa"? Well...that's simply....well, just tell him we've already got one.

ADB: Ah, yes, Pierre, if only it were that simple. Some bloody do-gooder has given him an i-MAC.

P: And?

ADB: And he says he's digitally re-mastered the bloody "Mona Lisa".

P: What?!?!?!?

ADB: Indeed.

P: So what's different about it?

ADB: He says that, thanks to modern technology, we can enjoy it as he intended. Colours are brighter...a bit metallic, he says.

P: Merdre. This is crazy....we spent thirty million on the original....if he thinks we're about to spend that again....

ADB: No, Pierre, you crazy type person.....he says it'll be mid-priced.

P: Yeah?

ADB: Yeah...and he says he's planning to re-master those flying machine sketches.

P: Yet more expense for something we already own.

ADB: Ah, yes....but this time he's planning to include an unreleased sketch in with them.

P: What is it?

ADB: It's a sketch of a 15th century food blender.

P: The bastard! He KNOWS we'll have to buy it!

ADB: Indeed, Pierre, but have a heart - he does have to eat.

Good night, Cocteau-ers....wherever you are.

[zed]

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

phil......excuse me....my stomach hurts!!:D :D

you are free to buy, or not, as you will, but please be informed.
nazi consumerisim is the same if you buy dead can dance or frank sinatra......don't buy blind............................................. ..................
who knows, i might try victorialand.
;) Zed.

[someotherian]

if you feel the same as phil does, put a special note in your 2003 dairy:

feb 10th - don't buy ct re-issues today.

(there, how hard was that?)

[Lucibelle]

LOLOLOL!!!:D

Point taken, Phil! And you have quite a way at making a point!

But hey, they DO restore priceless works of art, too! And they restore Steven Spielberg movies, and old episodes of M*A*S*H, Gilligan's Island and The Love Boat. :rolleyes: I would have liked the remastered 'Star Wars' movies just fine without the 'extra' features. Just the improvement to sound and picture quality was worth it to feed my sense of nostalgia. But remastered E.T.? I hated it the first time around, so I can't say that the next time would've been any better.

Eh, so we agree to disagree, I guess.
Can't I at least listen to some of the new stuff first? ;)

Anyone else catch the South Park where George Lucas and Stevan Spielberg are remastering all their movies? Priceless! Phil, you would've probably loved that one!

[Adam]

Phil, I didn't say you don't like CT. I'm not also that stupid to treat them like a gods. You just don't see difference between old CDs and remasters. I EVEN agree with you at some point. I see (HEAR) no urgent need to remaster Head Over Heels or Treasure. But Garlands and Victorialand? Love's Easy Tears? Tracks on Stars and Topsoil were good example what remastering is.

BTW Whole catalogue I meant whole 4AD catalogue: Pink Opaque, BBK and HOLV, incidentally, not to mention all EPs.
And I don't speak to you as if you were an idiot, you don't want to buy new/old albums - don't do it - it's your business. But not everyone agrees with you. Don't say 4AD exploits us. WE the fans decide what to buy or what not to buy.
I will purchase Victorialand and Garlands because of sound quality. Treasure and HOH? Maybe. That'd be my whim.

One question. If you already owned all CT stuff on vinyl would you buy CDs? I think there's anallogy.

How far do you go with it? If every band you loved re-mastered and then re-released it's back catalogue, where would it stop? Where would YOU stop? Until you'd duplicated your entire CD collection?

You're absolutely right. Ozzy Osbourne. No More Tears album recorded 1991, first re-release (remastered) 1995, second (bonus tracks) 2002. What's the difference in mastering between 1991 and 1995??!! I see no reason. Oh, there is one - MONEY.

[Phil Lawton]

One question. If you already owned all CT stuff on vinyl would you buy CDs?

Adam

That would be a different reason for buying the CDs....vinyl wears out and is worth more than the CD version in the long run. It makes sense to protect an investment.

Sonically, the dynamic range of vinyl is greater than a CD, anyhow. To hear a CD with the same dynamic range as vinyl, you need a SACD player.

And you still haven't grasped my point.

[Vlad]

Hi there, I just read this whole (lovely) thread and would like to throw in a few thoughts. First I have to take up the cudgels for The Pink Opaque. I may be biased on this one for it was my entry into the Cocteau realm, but I still think it's a marvelous collection, especially if you compare it to the rather unsatisfying Stars & Topsoil (I know this has a wider timerange, but that ain't my fault). Okay, matter of taste. But I also understand that back in '85 (or rather '86) The Pink Opaque was also released as the first Cocteau Twins CD (if not the first 4AD CD as well...) and as a start on a new medium I think it works quite well too.

As for that remaster/reissue thing I'm quite ambivalent. There's nothing wrong with cleaning up the sound of poor releases and surely not with making them cheaper. But why did they have to remove the extra tracks from Garlands (so how's gonna 'Speak No Evil' survive?) and Head Over Heels ? I know that they don't work to well in the flow of the original album, but they could as well have been put on a bonus disc, with the particular album (maybe with that extra carrot of the obligatory demo/alternate versions added - cp. the recent Elvis Costello reissues).

And I just don't see why the design had to be brought up to date? That argument of the CD's not doing justice to the original Vinyl doesn't work so well, given the fact that CD sleeves hardly ever will be able to compete with an original Vinyl sleeve imho. I could imagine one reason for this may be indeed the idea that a new look will probably attend a lot more buyers. At least I can admit that a new design is just as exiting as a new sound, but it's by no means necessary.

[Vlad]

The Mona Lisa comparison is nice, but the difference is, that there's just one true original Painting, but Thousands of Victorialands. And still there are folks out there who still don't have it.

So if that new da Vinci dumps out thousands of "remastered" Mona Lisa's I guess the Louvre couldn't care less ...

[Phil Lawton]

Vlad

Don't tell Pierre.

It does actually hold up to comparison - lots of people have prints of the "Mona Lisa", while the source material is in the hands of the Louvre. If Da Vinci was resurrected, there's a an argument to say that those people who felt it neccesary to have a print of the original would also want a print of the "re-mastered" version.

Anyone who feels upset by my comments must know that my whole thrust regards 4AD's marketing, not the wllingness of CT fans to purchase the product. CT sorts are usually good people and it galls me to see their enthusiasm exploited.

Please address any hate mail to :

Pablo Delgado
The Little Fajita House
El Paso Drive
Swindon

Thank you for listening.

(rattles a collection tin under your nose)

[mojo]

Originally posted by Vlad
But why did they have to remove the extra tracks from Garlands (so how's gonna 'Speak No Evil' survive?) and Head Over Heels ?

well, ideally had 4ad been able to, extra tracks from singles or anything else from around then would have been added, but Robin wanted the albums as they were originally intended (ie no extras). So they were removed. It had been talked and talked about, for a long time, but in the end the final decision does rest with the artist.

[Phil Lawton]

Vlad

Yeah, those extra tracks will be on 4AD's forthcoming release "Now That's What I Call Re-Mastered Cocteau Twins 47"

[mojo]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
Anyone who feels upset by my comments must know that my whole thrust regards 4AD's marketing

okay, so tell me - what is 4ad's marketing towards this? Because as far as I'm aware, we're a good three months off release here, so no marketing has been planned, the nearest to any kind of promotion is the fact they've got a release date. Care to expand a bit more?

[Vlad]

Are there still people who don't know that 4AD's the master of quiet marketing? An example is discussed in this His Name Is Alive thread:
http://beggars.bway.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=6220&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

Any aggressive marketing for the Cocteau reissues would probably get some people a bit upset. So carry on hushing ;)

[mojo]

hmm, the HNIA scenario is a bit different - that's a current album and a tricky one to boot... thats a bit unfair to bring that one up! Plus I avoided that thread like the plague so there's no official answers on that

I can tell you now that backcat don't tend to make postcards or posters or anything like that, so don't expect "art cards" or anything like what HNIA have had in the past....

[Vlad]

You're right about the different scenario.

But I do wonder what will actually happen to all the unreleased, rare or now deleted stuff. It seems like the only way out is indeed that rarities-remastered-compilation. When can we look forward to that one? Or will they become Robin's best kept secret?

[mojo]

I checked with backcat, and everything that could be released has been - (course, this would be an idea for a new thread of items that people think 4ad has in their possession that should be released - music wise) but again, this would all end up being something that Robin has the final say on.

I've not heard anything about a remastered rarities compilation, I'd say that was another myth floating about, Vlad!

[Phil Lawton]

Jo

You really want me to go over it again? OK...I'll try to condense it.

The issue (see, Adam? "Issue", not "re-issue") of the re-masters (see, Adam? "re-masters", not "re-issues") causes me concern because:

1) It preys on the more-than-keen collectors that 4AD must be all too aware of. CT has more avid collectors of those items that are basically the same, but differ in catalogue number, than any other artiste. (Defence exhibit 1 - Leesa Beales) Whether or not this is purely driven by 4AD, Robin Guthrie or a cocktail of the two is irrelevant.

The promise of a "cleaner" sound or "as Robin intended us to hear the music" along with a new catalogue number and tarted up visuals is a sure fire guarantee that CT fans will (with the odd exception) snap up a copy of all four.

2) The "mid-price" promise is somewhat misleading. Most CT albums available through Bella Union are already at around the level of "mid-price" (about £9). This is what I'd expect to pay for 17-18 year old albums. It's also a great way to persuade those of us who already own the originals (probably on vinyl AND CD) to buy yet another copy.

3) It smacks yet again of 4AD (not the only label that does this, incidentally) wringing the last drop of income possible from CT fans.

The box set had a bonus disc in it which, by its nature, forced fans who already owned the singles (probably on vinyl and CD) to cough up £50 for the pleasure of one new single containing four tracks.

"The Pink Opaque", intended for the U.S. market had one previously unreleased track on it. As Ethereal has pointed out on this thread, it was an important track, so why was it never really released over here, even as a one track single? No, it only ever appeared on TPO, thereby ensuring sales of the album, replete with tracks already owned by CT fans (probably on vinyl and CD) on both vinyl and CD.

"Head Over Heels" was released without the "Sunburst And Snowblind" additions....and then it was released in Canada WITH the "Sunburst And Snowblind" tracks. Different catalogue number, therby creating a want/need amongst the ranks of the CT fanatics.

And those are my objections.

[Phil Lawton]

And, as a footnote, Jo (because I'm getting as tired of explaining myself as everyone must be of reading my explanations), don't worry - 4AD will shift bucketlooads of all four albums.

[mojo]

I'll try answer what I can, without it getting too much into what we talked about on email yesterday, funny though, cause you did say you understood where we're coming from more, yesterday! anyway, here goes...

Originally posted by Phil Lawton
The issue (see, Adam? "Issue", not "re-issue") of the re-masters (see, Adam? "re-masters", not "re-issues") causes me concern because:

they'll probably be called reissues - just for the record. not sure how relevant that is to anything though!

1) It preys on the more-than-keen collectors that 4AD must be all too aware of. CT has more avid collectors of those items that are basically the same, but differ in catalogue number, than any other artiste. (Defence exhibit 1 - Leesa Beales) Whether or not this is purely driven by 4AD, Robin Guthrie or a cocktail of the two is irrelevant.

that's not entirely true - there's a hundred or so 4ad collectors who will re-buy anything for a new bit of print or catalogue numbers - I include Leesa in that, but if you'd think that 4ad would release something for an extra hundred sales, you'd be way off the mark there! But even though these people CHOOSE to collect everything, what can you do? Chances are most of these people will then go and spend several hundred dollars on ebay on some other Cocteaus or 4ad rarity. Oh bad seller people! How dare they sell something which goes for a lot of money! (that was a bit of sarcasm there). At least these are a lower price, and a fixed one at that.

The promise of a "cleaner" sound or "as Robin intended us to hear the music" along with a new catalogue number and tarted up visuals is a sure fire guarantee that CT fans will (with the odd exception) snap up a copy of all four.

but nobody is making anyone do that! you even said yourself you're not going to buy them, so why fight this battle? The new catalogue number is pretty standard anyway for any release that moves to mid-price, that's been something that has existed since whatever the first GAD 4ad release was! So again, not sure why the big issue on the catalogue number change. That is so it can also be recognised at a lower price on the (hopefully) many stores that will stock the records. It means jack shit to any non-4ad or Cocteaus collector, but that's how its been from Lush to the Pixies to Dif Juz. Even if there hadn't been new artwork, would people still buy it if the print on the sleeves changed from CAD to GAD. Probably. A lot of these 100 or so collectors always do. That's their choice. So I don't see the new artwork vs old artwork argument really works there.

2) The "mid-price" promise is somewhat misleading. Most CT albums available through Bella Union are already at around the level of "mid-price" (about £9).

no its not - Bella Union have been selling the albums at a lower price for a long time. I can't really go into how they have, but there you go. They've undercut the world with the price, and now the rest of the world will pay a dealer price that will mean they can also have it at the same price.

3) It smacks yet again of 4AD (not the only label that does this, incidentally) wringing the last drop of income possible from CT fans.

so don't buy it then! oh hang on, you're not! Like I said, if you think that the 100 or so die-hards who will buy this will make a difference. Lets take something I emailed you about yesterday (I think) where sometimes it can be near-on impossible to get shops to stock albums - especially say if they've not sold for a long time. To reissue them at mid price and make a bit of a fuss about them would mean that the chances are they'll be back in stock. Go down your local HMV or Virgin, or your local indie. In fact, do that, tell us which Cocteaus albums they have in stock. I'd imagine they'd maybe have some on the back of the Best Of, but wouldn't we all like to see them there so people can buy them? I'm in the position that I would have bought them this time around, as I only have vinyl copies, same as I did a few years ago when London brought out all the New Order albums at mid price. I didn't feel ripped off by this.

The box set had a bonus disc in it which, by its nature, forced fans who already owned the singles (probably on vinyl and CD) to cough up £50 for the pleasure of one new single containing four tracks.

wow, I only paid £40 for mine, bargain! I bought the Box Set at the time because again I only had the singles on vinyl, it was nice, I liked it. I didn't have to buy it though, I bought it because I wanted it.

"The Pink Opaque", intended for the U.S. market had one previously unreleased track on it. As Ethereal has pointed out on this thread, it was an important track, so why was it never really released over here, even as a one track single? No, it only ever appeared on TPO, thereby ensuring sales of the album, replete with tracks already owned by CT fans (probably on vinyl and CD) on both vinyl and CD.

I'm not sure of the reasons for that, its well before my time (a cop out I know) although I'd imagine with 4ad's limited funds it would be easier to make something available worldwide than a special one track cd. Plus then the 100 or so Cocteaus collectors who have the Pink Opaque would then have to go out and buy the special one track cd anyway for completions sake.

"Head Over Heels" was released without the "Sunburst And Snowblind" additions....and then it was released in Canada WITH the "Sunburst And Snowblind" tracks. Different catalogue number, therby creating a want/need amongst the ranks of the CT fanatics.

as far as I'm aware, wasn't it the cassette and cd that featured the extras and just the vinyl that didn't? I don't know about the CD, but back when it was released I'd go round to my friends house cause I was jealous she had the extra tracks on the end of her tape copy. Although that was a good few years after its release, so I don't know if she picked it up later? You will always get different catalogue numbers for different territories - that's the nature of any release. It all depends on who releases it. I'm not sure who would have released it in Canada in the period you're talking about though, again, before my time.

thanks though, it makes a bit more sense to me now, although I do disagree!

[curetwins]

Originally posted by mmmender
THE NEW COCTEAU TWINS RESISSUES ARE COMING!!!!!!

"Well, after a long long wait, we finally have a release date for the four Cocteaus reissues. Four? you say. Yep, just four at the moment - Heaven or Las Vegas and Blue Bell Knoll will stay as they are, at full price. However, Garlands, Head Over Heels, Victorialand and Treasure will all be reissued, remastered, in the UK only (US to follow later in the year) on February 10th" Jo, 4AD

what does this mean? it means new artwork, new package designs, tracks remastered by mr. guthrie himself......WOOHOO! (dunno about catalogue numbers for the collector freaks reading but i've already asked and will post a reply when i get one)

ok i know it's not like we're getting to hear new cocteau twins material or anything but this is pretty damn exciting for me. hurray......we get to buy the same cds all over again LOLOLOL!!!!!!!:D


oh yes!!!:) :) :)

[Phil Lawton]

Jo

I could cut and paste some of your stuff to point out where you've misconstrued some of my last post, but I have a banging headache to go with my stomach cramps and I can't be arsed any more.

Suffice to say your estimate of "a hundred or so Cocteau collectors" made me laugh out loud. I also makes me see that you really don't know what the impact of your marketing has or how big the band still is.

Let's agree to differ, as it sems I'm the only person here who objects to buying the same albums again for the sake of different tone structures and a shiny version of the same artwork. Or, at least, the only person here who's vocalising the objection.

Pass the paracetamol....no, no...not that paracetamol....the re-mastered one....that's the ticket.....

[mmmender]

happy happy joy joy
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~hodes/Pics/ren-stimpy.gif

[dreemkill]

ok, ive read through a bit of these posts, and in all honesty, i tend to agree w/ Phil. HOWEVER.....allow my perspective to come into play, which can in fact be benefitial to 4ADs perspective......
this is the way im looking at it - personally, i love this band more than none other. unfortunately i only have 2 albums (technically speaking, i had 3, BBC Sessions, HOLV, and 4CalenderCafe. the first two were stolen, i purchased HOLV again a couple weeks later [after being hospitalized for withdrawl symptons...heh] and then got 4CC.)
im now left with 2 cases for HOLV (lost the CD...its here somewhere, in a CD book) and 4CC. the reissuance or whatever the correct wording is, is a GREAT thing for me. i can now go buy 4 discs i dont have, and they are of good quality. nothing i see wrong with that. the world is full of marketing ploys, its up to the consumer to decide if they are to fall victim to them.

[Vlad]

No, it only ever appeared on TPO, thereby ensuring sales of the album, replete with tracks already owned by CT fans (probably on vinyl and CD) on both vinyl and CD.

Well Phil, I have to disagree, because at the time of TPO's release its content wasn't avaiable on CD. And as far as I remember 'Millimillenary' was a track from a (flexi-?)single that came with NME or Melody Maker, something that would become quite expensive in time. And I just remember another amusing remix-thing here: 'Wax & Wane' got the make-it-sound-better-treatment. Even though these two tracks could as well have been released on a 7", I still think this was a splendid start into the CD-Format and not a rip-off.

The box set has it's qualities, but I agree that it was by far too expensive at the time. I paid around GBP 50 too and that means I paid the usual price for each CD which shouldn't be the case with a pack of 10 just because the label put a simple (if nice) box around it. Also that bonus disc isn't such a big treasure after all. 'Crushed' came from LONELY IS AN EYESORE. 'Ooming Mak' was just an alternate version. The only real interesting track was 'High Monkey Monk' which originally came with another Melody Maker compilation. Hm.

I can't help mentioning the Rolling Stones whose backcat has just been released for the I-don't-know-how-many-th time with super-mega-audio-techniques guaranteeing the ultimate listening pleasure (of course as the artist desperatly intended them to sound :)). Being fair I must add that these re-somethings are at full price, so that sheds some holy light on the Cocteau re-issues, but all in all it definitely IS a rip off in both cases.

God knows how long it will take, but I'm sure there'll be some Audio-DVD's in the future, that obviously will be "way superior and of course ultimately like the artist wanted them to sound". And of course the design will be altered due to the different measures of the Audio-DVD sleeve. Yeah, thanks.

And yet I'm already wondering about the new prefix (exciting)! DAD would collide with the good old double album prefix and VAD is already occupied by Videos ...

[ezzydynamine]

maybe cad807 - blue bell knoll if released on audio-dvd could be cat numbered = gad807d

gotta have a "gad" prefix - cos it's a re-issue
and then a d for dvd/disc

if only 4AD had had DVD releases in 1990........
CAD0012 - lp
AD0011 - EP
BAD0011 - EP

CADc0012 - Cassette (added to the Cad prefix)
ADC0011 - Cassette (added to the Cad prefix)
BADc0011 - Cassette (added to the Cad prefix)

CAD0012CD -
BAD0011CD - Compact disc (added to the Cad or Bad prefix)

CADT0012 - Digital Audio Tape (added to the CAD prefix if they had released HOLV on DAT)

CAD0012D - DVD (added to the CAD prefix if they had released HOLV on DVD)


interested in 4AD catalogue numbers.... visitFacing the Wrong Way (http://www.fedge.net/ftww/numbers.html)

[Vlad]

That's it! But I'm starting to wonder why the "c" for Cassette comes before the number while the "cd" is added at the end (slightly confusing as usual?).

BTW as far as I know the "g" doesn't necessarily indicate a reissue but midprice. And I strongly doubt that a DVD will be released midprice (well not the FIRST issue ;)).

[superblast]

ok this might have already been addressed but if so i missed it... i was wondering if there are there any plans to remaster the other releases... ?

[mojo]

Originally posted by Vlad
BTW as far as I know the "g" doesn't necessarily indicate a reissue but midprice. And I strongly doubt that a DVD will be released midprice (well not the FIRST issue ;)).

DVD releases will just be plain old VAD numbers but with a DVD suffix (see Toward The Within by Dead Can Dance, due next year - VAD 4015 DVD)

I'm not sure why the extra c is where it is, probably someones wise idea way back when LP and MC were the two main formats, before everyone decided it was easier to put the CD suffix where it currently stands

all fun and games :)

the other two releases will not be remastered, as Robin felt there was no need. Not sure what that means in the future when they are moved down to mid-price either... we shall see. They will stay at a full price number (CAD) for the forseeable future.

[Phil Lawton]

Vlad

Stop being pedantic, I was trying to illustrate a point.

Whatever the availability in whatever format, the release of a generally unavailable track ("Millimilenary") on an album intended solely for the US market was a non-UK friendly act on the part of 4AD.

Too ill to argue any more.

[Lucibelle]

Originally posted by Phil Lawton

Whatever the availability in whatever format, the release of a generally unavailable track ("Millimilenary") on an album intended solely for the US market was a non-UK friendly act on the part of 4AD.

Whoa!!! Wait a minute! How many times have I, living in the US, gotten gyped by a record label in a similar fashion? Nope, sorry. No sympathy from me about that! ;)

[ezzydynamine]

may sound silly... but how was TPO made solely for the US market... i would say it was more "aimed" at the US market... since it was released by 4AD in unison with Relativity in the UK&US under CAD513 (in November 1985)....

what about Snow... it was only released in the UK... does that mean they only aimed at the UK....

not pushing here... just asking, as i don't know the real answer...

[Phil Lawton]

CT are a UK band...it makes/made sense.

[Vlad]

Phil

Don't worry. It seems like I'm one of the very few people who aren't too pleased with the reissues/-masters, but you won't convince me that TPO was a rip-off release. As far as bestofs go, you can hardly do any better imho (and this is coming from a passionate compilation-badmouth).

[mmmender]

TPO was never a fave of mine

*ducking*

[someotherian]

i will freely admit that i bought TPO purely for the one track (millimillenary) that i didn't already have on other releases.

i will also admit that i don't think it's all that good as a collection. mainly cos i don't like their stuff from that period so much (e.g the sunburst and snowblind tracks).

*ducks down with mmmender, avoiding projectiles from phil, vlad et al.*

[ezzydynamine]

to me... the Pink Opaque was alright... just a collection of their bits before... the first release of those tracks on CD if i'm not mistaken... that's bound to be a bonus... but anyway... I think they could have put a better mixture on... none from Lullabies or Pep Pig... but anyway.. Pink Opaque... just something different in the collection...

[Adam]

The Pink Opaque is great, because it contains rare songs. Rare!? Wait, let me explain. I couldn't buy Cocteau Twins EPs here in this god damn Poland until recently. Thanks to TPO I had the opportunity to hear The Spangle Maker, a half of Sunburst and Snowblind, Aikea-Guinea - one of their best songs.
So TPO did its job well, that's why it was released for back in 1985, I suppose, to give people (or US market, exactly) example of CT stuff.

And today? Well, it still contains Millimillenary, remixed Wax and Wane, and remastered Aikea-Guinea. I will not throw it away just because I've got full discography now ;)

[gladwin]

I got my original vinyl copy of TPO from the Left-Legged Pineapple in Loughborough when I was a student, in order to get my hands on Millimillenary for the first time.

I've subsequently replaced this with a CD, but from what I remember, several of the tracks (and I'm not talking about Wax and Wane) sounded rather different to my vinyl EPs.

From what I recall, Aikea-Guinea varied most noticeably from either the 12 inch vinyl, or the 7 inch (which I bought in order to get the version of Kookaburra with the drums on the start - this is missed off the 12 inch and CD EPs).

[Baba O'Reilly]

Originally posted by mmmender


don't ask how many copies of holv i've got cos it'll turn your stomach! ;)

So lees, how many copies of holv have you got?

Incidently, I am a CT 'fan' but won't be purchasing any of the remasters/reissues/what have you.

[mmmender]

about 11 or so....

[Baba O'Reilly]

That's not nearly enough!

[mmmender]

tell me about it!!!

[someotherian]

Originally posted by mmmender
about 11 or so....

ooh... that really turns my stomach... :rolleyes:

the question is though.. how many of them aren't scratched to buggery? :)

[Adam]

I bet you don't have polish version

[mmmender]

you're right adam i don't have a polish version.....but i'll bet you don't have an autographed canadian version! lol;)

[jana]

i'll be first in line to purchase the new 4ad releases only if the artwork is as follows....

[jana]

ass.we still can't post pictures.

[Adam]

you're right adam i don't have a polish version.....but i'll bet you don't have an autographed canadian version! lol

No, but I'll bet you don't have an autographed-limited-edition-exclusive-bonus-tracks-rare-Egyptian-digipack version with black scicker and 13,5-page booklet.

http://cocteautwins.republika.pl/holv_egyptian.jpg

[mmmender]

adam i'm not about to embark on a 'tit for tat' with you about our collections.....i'm sure you're just as proud of what you've got as i am......btw your holv is gorgeous!

[Adam]

Of course, dear Leesa, it's only a joke ;) Your collection is really admirable and I really DON'T think it's crazy or something (to have 11 HOLV for instance)!....................Peace!

[Lucibelle]

That really is incredible, Adam! :eek:



I, myself, am deeply jealous! :D

By the way, what were the bonus tracks?

[Adam]

:D :D :D

Oh, my uncle was in Egypt and he found this little gem somewhere in Cairo. He knows I love Cocteau twins so he bought me one copy... Bonus tracks are Mizake the Mizan and Watchlar, nothing special, really.

BTW, it was sealed, but I had to open it, because I can't read this crazy hieroglyphics!

[dreemkill]

jana, is that icon/avatar of yours a logo from "the residents" or is that actually from something else? there is a band that uses that as a logo....coincidentally, my friend just saw them play last week in NYC :)

...if its some established piece of artwork, they are just using, disregard my comment ;)

Originally posted by jana
i'll be first in line to purchase the new 4ad releases only if the artwork is as follows....

[jana]

yes it's the residents =)
although that isn't the photo i wanted to post...

[someotherian]

Originally posted by Adam
Oh, my uncle was in Egypt and he found this little gem somewhere in Cairo. He knows I love Cocteau twins so he bought me one copy
shame he only bought one!!

[Adam]

Ok, folks, some of you believe that my so called HOLV Egyptian version is real, but it was only a joke. Come on, what is with your sense of humour. :D

[Phil Lawton]

Adam (if that IS your real name)

I salute you, sir.

Did I ever show you my Hawaiian version of "Garlands"? (I'll just wait for you all to catch up.....ah...here you go...hello!)

Very nice. Remember, poker face at ALL times, you Polish rascal.

[someotherian]

Originally posted by Adam
Ok, folks, some of you believe that my so called HOLV Egyptian version is real, but it was only a joke. Come on, what is with your sense of humour. :D
um... what's polish for 'bastard'?!

[Lucibelle]

Originally posted by Adam
Ok, folks, some of you believe that my so called HOLV Egyptian version is real, but it was only a joke. Come on, what is with your sense of humour. :D

That was retribution for all the polish jokes that exist, wasn't it? ;)

But I DID fall for it! :rolleyes: But hey! With all the different shit out there, one never knows....

Good one!:D