Robin Guthrie Guitar Sound

[Andy]

Would very much appreciate any input/suggestions for replicating Guthrie's guitar sound/textures -- particularly the later work. What might be a common fx/petals setup? Any off the shelf products with a "Guthrie-like" pre-set? This is strickly for a home (non-stage) environment.

Best,

Andy

[crushed]

Andy,

I have no doubt that someone who is an actual musician will give you a better reply that I will, but I've messed around a little bit and managed to get something that reminds me of a few of his sounds.

I have three guitars (a stratocaster/a weird looking custom semi-hollow body (I found it at an auction)/and a semi-modified pawn shop special - with a single foil pick up), a crappy little '70's-era Fender tube amp, a crappy solid state Fender amp, and a handful of Boss pedals.

I've played around with stringing together a digital delay, a flanger, and two chorus pedals in different combinations. I generally turn the choruses to max, the delay to just below max (or so it repeats maybe 6-10 times while fading out) with the rate of repeat set on how quickly or slowly you strum or pick, and the flanger...just depends.

Figuring out how to re-create the guitar technique on songs like 'frou-frou foxes' or 'oomingmak' or 'those eyes, that mouth' was pretty easy. Simply pick or strum at the exact rate of the repeated signal on the delay. The repeated notes pile on top of one another and make it sound like there are two or three guitars. It really sounds cool when you change notes (or chords), as the sound of the prior notes (or chord) fade out while the new notes (or chords) build in intensity. Even with my shitty gear it sounds amazing.

I also play with the settings on the choruses and flanger, and it's easy to get sort of a slightly wobbly effect that Robin often used. But his sound for songs like 'iceblink luck', that's way beyond my understanding.

Cheers,

Christopher

[ScottL]

Yeah, I don't know myself either....I did read something about the use of lots of delays and less(or no) reverb generally...but the chorusy sound is certainly due(in part) to a harmonizer in many cases...Eventide is the big name I know of...would love to have one...but we're talking $1500+ as far as I know...I'm sure there is loads of stuff, including post-recording tweaking...those who know could inform you better indeed...
POST EDIT:
Actually I just checked Ebay...there is a range of models and age of Eventide harmonizers...you could snag one for $700-$1000 it appears...and in you might be able to get the ballpark...oh..yeah, RG's presets might help

PPS:
My friend was suggesting that guitar players seem to get G.A.S(Gear Acquisition Syndrome) the worst...I guess it is true...I usually keep my self in check, some of my guitar friends got it bad tho...man I want that harmonizer...drool...here it comes again...

[spanglemaker]

Fukka plays two guitars that I have seen: a Fender and a 6120 Gretsch. That Bigsby on the tail end of the Gretsch makes a huge difference when you reverb and echo out....try it.

[Rollo Kim]

They did use the Evantide Harmonizer - just factory presets for those lush pulsing sounds on HOLV.

It's not the guitar itself that matters - using that kind of set-up they all pretty much came out sounding the same. Combining flanger and phaser effects will get you that swirl, with just enough distortion or gain to boost the sound, and the delay thing is a must. He also uses a Heavy Metal Pedal.

And bare in mind that they had literally dozens and dozens and dozens of rack-mounted FX: eq's, delays, mutli fx, preamps etc. So each track is going to have slightly different settings.

[Andy]

Thanks to all for your input. It's interesting to read your different perspectives to a rather loaded question. The goal merely is getting "into the ballpark" of those beautiful sounds and having some fun experimenting. Would be nice to have a resident CT guitar tech available on this forum.

[curetwins]

ah yes, great subject!
i am a guitarist/musician myself i play 62 jazzmaster, boss pedals mostly and e -bow.

robin plays 59 jazzmaster, 59 strat, 61 fender bass vi and gretsch 6120 aswell some customs.. effects: yamaha d -1500 digital delay, electro harmonix memory man, electro harmonix big muff, fernandes sustainer, boss pedals, overdrive, distortion, vibrato, tremolo, d'addario strings and loads more.. he also has said that he is not a fan of reverb on guitar, so he uses lots of delay to create atmosphere and texture.

i would suggest boss ch1 chorus, boss bf2 flanger and boss digital delay or the rv3 digital delay/reverb and an e-bow.. and for an amp: line 6 flextone/flextone 2 xl or roland jc 120 jazz chorus.

hope this helps..

-jeff

[ScottL]

Yeah, I bought a Roland JC120 last year...I don't play out, I got it just for my own private use in the studio...mic'ing(using a large diaphragm and a small condenser mic) that JC120 did WONDERS for my recorded guitar tone...the chorus on that amp is nice too.

If you don't mind an older harmonizer, seems the H3000(circa 1988 I think) averages $800 or ebay, they list all the eventides on www.prepal.com BTW.....a good source of ebay prices for music gear. Or just spring for a new Eclipse(w/24bit digital I/O) for a cool $2000...hehe...anyway, surely the harmonizer played a key role in that wall of sound he had in Pitch the Baby...amongst others...

One thing I also recall not yet mentioned, but alluded to, Robin said in an interview he thought pickups are more important for his tone that the physical guitar...so having some nice active pickups(EMG is a common brand: http://www.emgpickups.com/) may be helpful. They also tend to make less noise(less RF interference transmitted through the actual pickups). You can also make a cheaper guitar sound better by getting better pickups.

Since I read the 'delay instead of reverb' comment last year, I've tried to do more with delays to thicken the sound...I find it a bit tricky...this is where loads of rack equipment is nice....be careful of GAS, lest you make yourself broke...unless you got loads of expendable income/savings...

[Lucibelle]

I've heard ScottL's guitar and it has a sweet, sweet sound. Jeff/Curetwins and his friend have really got the sounds duplicated very, very well! I don't know too much about that end myself. I have an Epiphone Sheridan II, and I tend to use lots of reverb on it. I know, I know. I'd like to afford these toys myself. Maybe in the future. I find it interesting to hear the sound duplicated, though. It's really quite amazing!

[mmmender]

*bump*

[darakish]

thanks, mmmmm!
a very timely *bump* for me!

[PhillipT]

Another thing I'm sure that Robin did was play in stereo and ping ponged alot of the delays.

-Phillip

[robin guthrie]

OK .. what song?

[etc etc]

Howzabout modulated, autopanned, feedback delays (with the Polychorus knobtwisting) in Evangaline.......one things for sure, Mssr. Guthrie is light years beyond entry level ping pong action....this is a man who has elavated 'knobtwisting' to high art! Must have been all that practicing as a teenager I bet his palms are hairy too!

[dannen]

guitars?!?!?!

i thought they were a synth band!!!

;-)

[robin guthrie]

Originally posted by Rollo Kim
just factory presets for those lush pulsing sounds on HOLV.

(with bill hicks voice)
I don't think so

[E-Lo]

I would like to know how the guitar sound for Pitch the Baby was constructed.

It is nearly impossible for me to distinguish the guitars(?) from the synths(?). It almost sounds like a soft organ sound is in there too. Truly amazing work Robin, and definitely my all-time favorite (next to Watchlar that is)

[ScottL]

Originally posted by robin guthrie
(with bill hicks voice)
I don't think so

Hehe...I was wondering, seemed hard to believe you'd stick to the presets....so if you happen to read this Robin, have you kept up with the newer lines of Eventide gear, like the Eclipse, or anything? Clearly they have newer technology(24 bit sampling/digital IO etc) but do you find the sound is good enough to leave the H3000 line in the dust? Or would the H3000 still have a place in your studio? Of course, maybe you've moved on from Eventide altogether?

Just curious, as I'm still itchin' to buy an old H3000SE.

[robin guthrie]

Originally posted by E-Lo
I would like to know how the guitar sound for Pitch the Baby was constructed.

It is nearly impossible for me to distinguish the guitars(?) from the synths(?). It almost sounds like a soft organ sound is in there too. Truly amazing work Robin, and definitely my all-time favorite (next to Watchlar that is)

ok.. the pulsating stuff : was my green paul reed smith guitar (cause I did most of holv with it and my '59 jazzmaster) played through a gallien kruger preamp straight into the board. this was then treated with a lexicon 480L (pitch shifted +10 cents and -10 cents to make it stereo) and delayed with a yamaha d1500 in sync with the bpm of the track.. next the fun bit .. I inserted a drawmer ds201 dual noise gate over the stereo guitar and triggered it externally from click track playing 16th notes... then I rerecorded the track back from tape through a cry baby wah-wah which I moved manually (Ie with my hands) ..

next: the clean guitars - same guitar through a tom sholtz rockmodule preamp into the board, a little roland dimension d and same yamaha delay....
and the bass was a '57 precision played through a nomad bass box.....

sorry not to be more specific...
oh, and there are no synths....

[E-Lo]

Wow!! That is absolutely amazing – for years was convinced you used some synths on that.

Thank you very much for sharing and clearing that up, Robin!!!